Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

Did I mention I'm also vastly annoyed that they changed the color of the allagan pants in 2.1 from white to some faded off-tone navy. It previously contrasted very well with my Myth chest and DL boots. Now it clashes because it has similar brightness but conflicting hue and saturation.

>.>

Yeah the differences between Best in Slot (mostly myth) and Best in Slot (if you only factor in Allagan Armor and Myth/Allagan/Extreme Accessories) is very very small.

657.18 for Best in Slot (all possible armor)
656.52 for Best in Slot (only Allagan Armor and all possible accessories)

Yep. And those values roughly translate at a 2:1 ratio to potential DPS. So that 0.66 "value" delta will be like 0.33 DPS.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Yep. And those values roughly translate at a 2:1 ratio to potential DPS. So that 0.66 "value" delta will be like 0.33 DPS.

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So you're saying that if i have a 660 value from my gear/food that I should be roughly parsing around 330 dps?

good to know ^^

Yeah more or less. Note the "2:1" is just a coincidental result. It's not any sort of intended/accurate correlation.

I really don't want to spend the Myth on the pants (would rather get the Warrior body, or something for WHM...and yes, I am upset they changed the color of the Allagan pants too :( ) so anyone have any info on what using the Allagan pants pre-T5 would look like, and how much worse it is going that way?

You mean "look like" as in how it affects your BiS list if you restrict pants to Allagan?

Pre-T5 w/ pants = Allagan:

HQ Eggs

Myth Belt
Myth Boots
Allagan Bracelet Striking
Myth Chest
Allagan Earring Striking
Myth Gloves
Allagan Helm
Allagan Leggings
Myth Necklace
Allagan Ring Maiming
EX Garuda Ring Striking
Myth Weapon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

You mean "look like" as in how it affects your BiS list if you restrict pants to Allagan?

Pre-T5 w/ pants = Allagan:

HQ Eggs

Myth Belt
Myth Boots
Allagan Bracelet Striking
Myth Chest
Allagan Earring Striking
Myth Gloves
Allagan Helm
Allagan Leggings
Myth Necklace
Allagan Ring Maiming
EX Garuda Ring Striking
Myth Weapon

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Looks like I'm going for the pants

If we are to use the new bis gear that has been kindly recommended for us, will the new extreme mode primals require to use the HQ Deviled Eggs? I know turn 4 and 5 will need to have the food eaten, I'm just wondering what other fights may need the food required also? I myself right now have far too much accuracy and use buttons, so it'd be good to know when I'd need to pop the eggs if I were to obtain the new bis gear.

One final question with the different bis that have been posted here recently, the last one posted by Augustus, but I know EMX and other's have posted their own versions too. This is what was come up with last by Augustus, so I assume at this time this is the current bis gear now?

Weapon Allagan
Head Myth
Body Myth
Hands Allagan
Legs Myth
Feet Myth
Waist Myth
Necklace Myth
Earring Myth
Bracelet Inferno
Ring Allagan Maiming
Ring2 Vortex

Food: HQ Deviled Eggs

Thanks guys.

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Originally Posted by AugustusSB

Best in Slot with new weights from EMX and factoring in food below:
Weapon Allagan
Head Myth
Body Myth
Hands Allagan
Legs Myth
Feet Myth
Waist Myth
Necklace Myth
Earring Myth
Bracelet Inferno
Ring Allagan Maiming
Ring2 Vortex

Food: HQ Deviled Eggs

Best in Slot Up to and Including Turn 4 (NO TURN 5)
Weapon Relic+1
Head Allagan
Body Myth
Hands Allagan
Legs Myth
Feet Myth
Waist Myth
Necklace Myth
Earring Allagan Striking
Bracelet Inferno
Ring Allagan Maiming
Ring2 Vortex

Food: Hq Deviled Eggs

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I actually haven't been following this thread other than the main posts... What's EMX?

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Originally Posted by Adastraa

I actually haven't been following this thread other than the main posts... What's EMX?

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EasyModeX, one of the main guys posting in this thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jamison

EasyModeX, one of the main guys posting in this thread.

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Thank you, good sir.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BalthierDragoon

They didn't fix lvl.50** foods in 2.1 patch.
HQ Apkallu Omelette (lvl50**) gives you +4% Critical Buff.

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Thank you for that, I didn't even realize how food exactly worked anyway. I fixed my code and got the BiS you guys are talking about :)

Code:

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Score: 656.76
Weapon: Allagan Spear
Gloves: Allagan Gauntlets Of Maiming
Helmet: Wyrm's Armet
Chest: Wyrm's Mail
Waist: Hero's Belt Of Maiming
Pants: Wyrm's Breeches
Feet: Wyrm's Greaves
Neck: Hero's Necklace Of Slaying
Earrings: Hero's Earring Of Slaying
Wrists: Inferno Bangle Of Striking
Ring1: Allagan Ring Of Maiming
Ring2: Vortex Ring Of Striking
Food: Hq Deviled Eggs

Weapon Damage: 47
Strength: 224
Vitality: 195
Critical: 124
Accuracy: 141
Skill Speed: 93
Determination: 89

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by KrystalF

Thank you for that, I didn't even realize how food exactly worked anyway. I fixed my code and got the BiS you guys are talking about :)

Code:

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Score: 656.76
Weapon: Allagan Spear
Gloves: Allagan Gauntlets Of Maiming
Helmet: Wyrm's Armet
Chest: Wyrm's Mail
Waist: Hero's Belt Of Maiming
Pants: Wyrm's Breeches
Feet: Wyrm's Greaves
Neck: Hero's Necklace Of Slaying
Earrings: Hero's Earring Of Slaying
Wrists: Inferno Bangle Of Striking
Ring1: Allagan Ring Of Maiming
Ring2: Vortex Ring Of Striking
Food: Hq Deviled Eggs

Weapon Damage: 47
Strength: 224
Vitality: 195
Critical: 124
Accuracy: 141
Skill Speed: 93
Determination: 89

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My dear sir, may i know where did you get that calculator from?

I coded it myself in java, it was quite buggy though until now.

If there are 2 DRGs in the group, do they both need to use Chaos Thrust combo? or 1 on them using it is enough?

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Originally Posted by Miyaka_Vigiles

If there are 2 DRGs in the group, do they both need to use Chaos Thrust combo? or 1 on them using it is enough?

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Both should use it. Phlebotomize is our most damaging skill and Chaos Thrust Combo is next.

As stated above the damage of IDC is higher than TTT so it would be used by both dragoons.

The only exception is if you were trying to burst a target that will die in 5-6 GCD's (not enough time for CT dot ticks)... Then one could apply and the other would not.

thanks for the info

2Questions:
1: Fracture yes or no?
2: Darksteel haub or Onion Armor?

Doubt I'll be doing coil on drg anytime soon so acc is not a concern.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stalkster

2Questions:
1: Fracture yes or no?
2: Darksteel haub or Onion Armor?

Doubt I'll be doing coil on drg anytime soon so acc is not a concern.

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1. No Fracture, the best rotation now is H IDC P TTT H TTT P IDC H TTT P TTT Repeat.
2. Onion Armor by a mile. You pretty much always want the higher iLvl item, regardless of secondary stats, because the higher iLvl should almost always have higher main stat, in this case, STR. The only reason you'd take Darksteel would be if it were HQ AND you got more STR than onion through materia. Not sure if that's possible, I'm melding dumb.

Well HQ caps Prim stats.
Using the math on the op I get.
Onion Armor(ignoring the Acc) Total: 28.066
Darksteel Haub(18Det meld) total: 30.254

If you're headed to coil, you may well need that accuracy. It isn't a stat than can always be overlooked. If it saves you a few misses that'll help your dps a lot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stalkster

Well HQ caps Prim stats.
Using the math on the op I get.
Onion Armor(ignoring the Acc) Total: 28.066
Darksteel Haub(18Det meld) total: 30.254

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Well, you're ignoring the +ACC, lol. Technically, the Darksteel Haubergeon can be slightly better offensively, but not as much as you're estimating. If you want something more apples-to-apples, you'll have to meld at least 3 Heaven's Eye IV to get 27 (cap, can't get 30), and you sure as hell aren't melding 2 Savage Might IV (+12 DTR) on top of that -- you'd spend 5 million gil failing melds. Realistically, you'd probably meld 1 stat (crit's capped, so +6 DTR) and the rest will be HE4 + 3x HE3 to hit +27 accuracy. That would be -3 accuracy, -5 STR, -5 VIT, +2 SSPD, +6 DTR, and +27 CHR. Nevermind the ACC and VIT losses, your net DPS gain from that formula would be 5 - 5.932 = 0.932. Regardless, it's not going to be a wide swing one way or the other.

Well my coil group the OT is a Drg main. We all ready have a Mnk main. So it's pretty safe to assume I wont be going Drg to coil, being Pld main.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stalkster

Well my coil group the OT is a Drg main. We all ready have a Mnk main. So it's pretty safe to assume I wont be going Drg to coil, being Pld main.

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DRG BiS has a ton of Myth, so maybe he'll be nice enough to give ya some Coil drops, you know, if you want them.

As a general disclaimer to repeat from gamefaqs:

The difference in static DPS between the "worst" i90 and "best/BiS" i90 sets will be like 5 DPS tops, or something (probably less than 5 DPS), as long as you're not overshooting ACC caps by 50.

So don't bend over backwards for specific gear in X or Y slot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Yeah I'm personally annoyed as well because I prefer the look of most of the Allagan gear (aside from the chest).

I'm going to have to do some soul-searching to see whether I can justify the look (and cost) of all the Myth slots for like +1 DPS.

Aesthetics versus marginal DPS. I CAN'T DECIDE*.

*At least I can procrastinate on any decision until I actually, you know, see/get the Allagan spear, otherwise the point is moot.

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I'm still not convinced by the new BiS with so much SS, using your rotation with +96 SS and the changes to jumps means you going to be clipping the end of CT. CT now with my gear does like 49-52 per tick, clipping the last tick of CT every 30 seconds would mean a 1.63 dps loss no ?

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Originally Posted by pompey_dan

I'm still not convinced by the new BiS with so much SS, using your rotation with +96 SS and the changes to jumps means you going to be clipping the end of CT. CT now with my gear does like 49-52 per tick, clipping the last tick of CT every 30 seconds would mean a 1.63 dps loss no ?

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why not simply add a filler?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AugustusSB

why not simply add a filler?

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Fracture I guess, but my poor tp :(

H IDC P TTT H TTT P IDC H TTT P TTT. TTT a short way of abbreviating True Thrust Combo? Sorry I'm retarded on abbreviations. lol

TTT is the generic thrust combo, yeah.

Ok, it was just weird looking at that abbreviation as TTT. xD

Hi, I'm trying to switch over to the new rotation posted before for post 2.1. However, I wanted to confirm if this is the best rotation with buffs and jumps. Also, after this partial rotation, you're supposed to wait for all buffs to cooldown, and then restart it again right? As in, don't start up Internal Release even though Blood for Blood is still on cooldown just to maximize dps? Lastly, what exactly is clipping? In my interpretation, it's for example, Chaos Thrust is at 4 seconds left and then you hit the IDC combo so Chaos thrust is refreshed even though CT is already at 4 seconds? How does this lower dps?

2.0:
HT [IR] Ph [BFB] Imp [Leg] Dis [PS] CT [Jump] TT [SSD] VT [LS] FT [DFD]

2.1:
HT [IR] Imp [BFB] Dis [PS] CT [Jump] Ph [Leg] TT [SSD] VT [LS] FT [DFD]
or
HT [BFB] Imp [IR] " "

So I got my gryphonskin ring and kinda' messed up on the materias. I put vit8, crit4, crit4, det3, det3 since I thought that was the cap on it from the materia cap chart. How much of a DPS loss is 4 crit and 2 det, anything significant or am I just worrying for nothing?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pompey_dan

CT now with my gear does like 49-52 per tick, clipping the last tick of CT every 30 seconds would mean a 1.63 dps loss no ?

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Clipping accounted for. Still better. You will clip the "last tick" regardless of SS as long as SS is >0. You have to meet/exceed +105 SS before you are at risk of losing a second tick. Differences in DPS based on gear sets are very minute. You can optimize for more DTR if you #believe in DTR. DTR and total damage formula still unknown. SS still obnoxious because you can get v. low on TP if you try hard enough to optimize DPS with multiple targets and ROT/Doomspike. Also, SCH with Selene pew pew pew.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zaranghae

I wanted to confirm if this is the best rotation with buffs and jumps.

2.1:
HT [IR] Imp [BFB] Dis [PS] CT [Jump] Ph [Leg] TT [SSD] VT [LS] FT [DFD]
or
HT [BFB] Imp [IR] " "

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Use BFB first for more time overlap between BFB and IR.

Use Leg Sweep after Disembowel to get it off cooldown faster and bump PS/Jump one slot right. Rest is fine, although with the faster animations in 2.1, you can get 2 buffs off between some GCDs sometimes. Don't try too hard though.

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Also, after this partial rotation, you're supposed to wait for all buffs to cooldown, and then restart it again right? As in, don't start up Internal Release even though Blood for Blood is still on cooldown just to maximize dps?

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No. Never hold your buffs to try and sync them unless you only need to hold them like ... a few seconds. Only hold buffs for fight-centric mechanics (Titan Heart, Twintania Conflag or Snake debuff). Do not hold buffs "just to sync". Synchronizing them is good, but not worth holding the buffs for any meaningful stretch of time.

Quote:

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Lastly, what exactly is clipping? In my interpretation, it's for example, Chaos Thrust is at 4 seconds left and then you hit the IDC combo so Chaos thrust is refreshed even though CT is already at 4 seconds? How does this lower dps?

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Because you didn't need to refresh the CT so soon. You've "wasted" 4 seconds of the CT debuff due to unnecessary overlap.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pompey_dan

Fracture I guess, but my poor tp :(

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Yeah, I add fracture if i have to wait in between combos, ie. stupid EX Garuda turning around to throw a friction at the raid right before an IDC combo

How worthwhile do you guys think an Obelisk would be? And what would you slot into it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sylari

How worthwhile do you guys think an Obelisk would be? And what would you slot into it?

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I'd say don't bother with it, a GC weapon is more then enough to take you through to relic especially if you know how to move on titan, but be warned you'll probably kill yourself a few times by jumping at the wrong moment.