Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Ideally they could hire some competent class designers that actually have an interest in the healing role to fill our hotbars with a entirely different toolkit that doesn't revolve around pressing the same button 100-150 times in a single trial or turn.

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That would be nice. As we're definitely going to have more brand new jobs added in the on going expansions, they certianly need more people to join their ranks

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

and you expect new players to be ignorant and stupid? Tutorial exists

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They do. But that still doesn’t stop people from playing the jobs incorrectly or in some semblance of freestyle. Sage has a wonderful tutorial when you unlock it that explains the basics of Kardia, yet the amount of Sages I’ve seen that won’t use it is kind of mind-boggling. Or the number of Sages that ironically apply it and then spend their time casting Diagnosis on the tank and doing zero damage…

Tutorials may exist, but that doesn’t mean people still don’t play stupidly. This game is actually quite horrible when it comes to providing meaningful gameplay advice and tutorials. Only the newer jobs added since SB really get any sort of in-depth how-to to them when you unlock them. But the base classes? Or the base jobs? Nada.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

They do. But that still doesn’t stop people from playing the jobs incorrectly or in some semblance of freestyle. Sage has a wonderful tutorial when you unlock it that explains the basics of Kardia, yet the amount of Sages I’ve seen that won’t use it is kind of mind-boggling. Or the number of Sages that ironically apply it and then spend their time casting Diagnosis on the tank and doing zero damage…

Tutorials may exist, but that doesn’t mean people still don’t play stupidly. This game is actually quite horrible when it comes to providing meaningful gameplay advice and tutorials. Only the newer jobs added since SB really get any sort of in-depth how-to to them when you unlock them. But the base classes? Or the base jobs? Nada.

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I believe we were talking about leveling and its relative systems?

I'm not going to delve into that new non offensive healer style gameplay or the engagement of healer gameplay and its toolkit. That was beyond the scope of my original comment.

I may be completely off base here, but aren't Ultimates literally the same thing where everything is still on a timer. Raid wide goes out people need to be healed, tank busters go out, but there is more of that damage going out and you need more focus on party mitigations similar to savage before everyone is completely geared out? I have not done them yet but I highly doubt things will be random it is just not in this games nature to be random with certain things unless you are playing with accident prone players which is indeed fun and challenging. This is not learning how to parry in dark souls or trying to master backstabbing and parrying to take down Abyss Watchers. Even still you will not suddenly have a rotation on whm like they promised in a live letter before EW for aoe holy lilly being a combo. I will eventually attempt Ultimates but I highly doubt once you memorize the fight it will no longer be challenging way less after people make barely any mistakes in all content.

That isn't to say it wont be challenging but I feel as though there is either a translation issue with what people actually want or what they even understand about what people are asking for. I really just think Yoshi P needs to go on a stream and level whm and be stuck going through the ARR grind the whole experience not just edit his character to 90 and test at end game. No one plays healer on the dev team correct? I think even if they do not want to they should try it on out and tell us if they are having fun.

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Originally Posted by MiaShino

No no no no no more gcd heal reliance please. GCD healing within FF14 feels fricken terrible!

.3 tick rate? GCD rollover of base 2.5 seconds? No thank you.

There is nothing quite like the syncing down to lower levels as healer right meow. Mmm yummy I love going hhhhnnnnnnnnnng Adlo for fifteen years while also losing uptime. Amazing! Will it arrive in time? Will I Adlo myself because server ticks suck the big phat one? Who knooows!

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That was the way we did things in ARR. There was only Bene as the White Mage oGCD heal. You didn't have the MP to be a stone freak either. I do remember in Turn 13 getting to use Holy during adds, couple of stones during Hallowed Ground, Holmgang. There just wasn't the MP, nor oGCDs to really get away with it to the extent of today.

Even at the beginning of the fight, you have about 2 GCDs to get the DPS healthy in Turn 13 after Megaflare before the Earthshakers, so you plan to land the Medica II immediately when the stack hit. Otherwise your single target Cure IIs wasn't going to be enough to keep your DPS target alive. The other healer would get the other side, they just Adlo and Lustrate. Just a snapshot on how GCD healing wasn't boring, it was how things were and you had a finite plan on what you needed to do compared to the array of options today.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

I didn't want to mention the name because it will take a lot of time to explain the difference and I'm not interested in doing this.

Just know the healing tools we have in this game is way too powerful.

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So the game your talking about is so different to XIV that mentioning what it actual is would hurt your argument?

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

I believe we were talking about leveling and its relative systems?

I'm not going to delve into that new non offensive healer style gameplay or the engagement of healer gameplay and its toolkit. That was beyond the scope of my original comment.

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Even those most basic concepts the game hardly provides information about outside of Active Help windows—which can be disabled and easily ignored.

I think i am interested to see what a "non offensive" healer would be but FF14 does not provide frame to do that, not even in the slighstest and would without serious encounter changes not work. Especially in a game that makes "DPS"-Meta the rewarding gameplay style.
But for good measure if healer do the same damage but get a rotation - i take it. I REPEAT for all people out there i dont want more "damage" for healers, i want change the way the healers apply said damage. Please change "11111112111111"!

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Originally Posted by Faafetai

I may be completely off base here, but aren't Ultimates literally the same thing where everything is still on a timer. Raid wide goes out people need to be healed, tank busters go out, but there is more of that damage going out and you need more focus on party mitigations similar to savage before everyone is completely geared out? I have not done them yet but I highly doubt things will be random it is just not in this games nature to be random with certain things unless you are playing with accident prone players which is indeed fun and challenging. This is not learning how to parry in dark souls or trying to master backstabbing and parrying to take down Abyss Watchers. Even still you will not suddenly have a rotation on whm like they promised in a live letter before EW for aoe holy lilly being a combo. I will eventually attempt Ultimates but I highly doubt once you memorize the fight it will no longer be challenging way less after people make barely any mistakes in all content.

That isn't to say it wont be challenging but I feel as though there is either a translation issue with what people actually want or what they even understand about what people are asking for. I really just think Yoshi P needs to go on a stream and level whm and be stuck going through the ARR grind the whole experience not just edit his character to 90 and test at end game. No one plays healer on the dev team correct? I think even if they do not want to they should try it on out and tell us if they are having fun.

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For the most part, yes. Ultimate simply deals far more outgoing damage. However, even that remains both scripted and inconsistent. Take TEA, for example. The first two phases, Living Liquid and BJ/CC deal significantly higher damage than Alexander—making the whole fight heavily frontloaded. Once you reach Alexander, it's all just a mechanical dance with the healers having not much more to deal with in terms of damage than your average Savage fight. Mega Holy and Trine do hit particularly hard but you'll have essentially your whole toolkit for them.

We can only speculate, but it seems the dev team has a radically different (or perhaps, stubborn), perception of how we actually play. They seemingly believe healers regularly GCD heal while using their oGCDs for emergencies. Keep in mind, they do watch World prog, where even the best healers are playing extremely safe despite still spamming their nuke. That's the only rationale I can conclude for why they keep adding new healing abilities when the kits are bloated enough already. Unfortunately, that isn't how we play—especially in lower end content. Equally unfortunate is whenever people bring this up we get dismissive responses like the thread title, causing that disconnect to continue. Frankly speaking, it's inexcusable to me an entire role essentially spams one button for 60-90% of the content they partake in, regardless of its difficulty. That's just poor design.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Once you reach Alexander, it's all just a mechanical dance with the healers having not much more to deal with in terms of damage than your average Savage fight. Mega Holy and Trine do hit particularly hard but you'll have essentially your whole toolkit for them.

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And at that level you're going to have people using Reprisal, Feint, Addle, Shield Samba combined with shields etc so you realize those "hard hitting" stuff are relatively manageable. Those things are independent of all of the other healer mitigation.

Like others have said. It's just a dance. Do the steps and complete it. Nothing is random. Literally everything can be mapped out.

JUst bumping this up to make sure that it's on the front page.

Well we do have the live letter that is coming up on April 1st so I do wonder what they're going to say on the healer stuff about whm. I wouldn't get any hopes up though. At best, probably an extra charge on thin air per use and a lower of mp costs on cure 2 and cure 3.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

JUst bumping this up to make sure that it's on the front page.

Well we do have the live letter that is coming up on April 1st so I do wonder what they're going to say on the healer stuff about whm. I wouldn't get any hopes up though. At best, probably an extra charge on thin air per use and a lower of mp costs on cure 2 and cure 3.

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I would not expect any significant changes to healers this expansion to be honest. Drk maybe but even that is a big maybe.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

JUst bumping this up to make sure that it's on the front page.

Well we do have the live letter that is coming up on April 1st so I do wonder what they're going to say on the healer stuff about whm. I wouldn't get any hopes up though. At best, probably an extra charge on thin air per use and a lower of mp costs on cure 2 and cure 3.

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Your optimism is sickening. An extra charge of Thin Air won't happen until next expansion to make it seem like they're actually doing work on healers.

https://i.gyazo.com/71d0c8640e456a10...1dda1fcb4d.png
Engaging healer gameplay in p2s btw

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

I would not expect any significant changes to healers this expansion to be honest. Drk maybe but even that is a big maybe.

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They stated that they weren't going to do major reworks till after the next Ultimate most likely because they don't want to break jobs or break the Ultimate that was already delayed so much. So this thread will be poppin off when 6.1 is just potencies and minor adjustments.

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Originally Posted by Acece

https://i.gyazo.com/71d0c8640e456a10...1dda1fcb4d.png
Engaging healer gameplay in p2s btw

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P2S is okay, it's not the instance itself, just savage in-general gets too comfy with ilevel gain. More dangerous on week one with the final double arrows stack, and having to need mitigation for the heavy AoEs. Now they don't need it.

It's the crux YoshiP's argument they make about "go play ultimate"

As savage is tuned to the average min ilevel i580 and anything more is breathing room. So their raid testers have to clear the content at i580. Whether they really go back in with i600 is anyone's guess.

Versus say the next ultimate being tuned to only one ilevel, i600. I get their argument is more of "we made content that is only tuned for best-in-slot so try that". That's really not enough, like all content in the game needs to be able to use the healer buttons better. It doesn't have to be challenging either.

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Originally Posted by technole

P2S is okay, it's not the instance itself, just savage in-general gets too comfy with ilevel gain. More dangerous on week one with the final double arrows stack, and having to need mitigation for the heavy AoEs. Now they don't need it.

It's the crux YoshiP's argument they make about "go play ultimate"

As savage is tuned to the average min ilevel i580 and anything more is breathing room. So their raid testers have to clear the content at i580. Whether they really go back in with i600 is anyone's guess.

Versus say the next ultimate being tuned to only one ilevel, i600. I get their argument is more of "we made content that is only tuned for best-in-slot so try that". That's really not enough, like all content in the game needs to be able to use the healer buttons better. It doesn't have to be challenging either.

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Oh yeah mb
https://i.gyazo.com/b4bd462e064b62eb...06c521bed6.png
here's my first clear as a i580 sch lol (think this was like 3rd week?)

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Originally Posted by technole

P2S is okay, it's not the instance itself, just savage in-general gets too comfy with ilevel gain. More dangerous on week one with the final double arrows stack, and having to need mitigation for the heavy AoEs. Now they don't need it.

It's the crux YoshiP's argument they make about "go play ultimate"

As savage is tuned to the average min ilevel i580 and anything more is breathing room. So their raid testers have to clear the content at i580. Whether they really go back in with i600 is anyone's guess.

Versus say the next ultimate being tuned to only one ilevel, i600. I get their argument is more of "we made content that is only tuned for best-in-slot so try that". That's really not enough, like all content in the game needs to be able to use the healer buttons better. It doesn't have to be challenging either.

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It's not ilevel gain that's the problem or at the core of this entire question/thread. It shouldn't matter how much healing a healer is or isn't required to do for normal/savage content. What matters is that, regardless of how much healing we do, there is and will always be downtime and we only have one button to spam during that downtime.

I think it is misplaced to put the burden of healing engagement on encounter design. The bulk of encounter difficulty is based around movement and damage *dodging*--players' skill is tested and awarded by their ability to avoid damage altogether. And it's already fairly challenging as it is...it just happens that the better a party is at the game's primary mechanics, the less required healers are. So the only two options would be:

1) Make attack dodging *even more* difficult, which would not be very fair to any party member and destroy a lot of the game's fun factor if players now suddenly *needed* to precisely optimize positioning and movement to clear most content.

2) Add more arbitrary unavoidable damage, which already happens to an extent and is a really cheap method of heal-checking and undermines player skill.

Outside of just retooling trial attack potencies, there just isn't a very good way to approach making healing itself more necessary. And even that approach, like the others, would only marginally improve healer necessity because whatever playerbase didn't quit would just adjust to more punishing mechs. Which is why most of us are advocating for increased DPS/utility instead, because at minimum healers deserve more to do in a game that by design doesn't and will not require them to be healing most of the time.

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Originally Posted by technole

P2S is okay, it's not the instance itself, just savage in-general gets too comfy with ilevel gain. More dangerous on week one with the final double arrows stack, and having to need mitigation for the heavy AoEs. Now they don't need it.

It's the crux YoshiP's argument they make about "go play ultimate"

As savage is tuned to the average min ilevel i580 and anything more is breathing room. So their raid testers have to clear the content at i580. Whether they really go back in with i600 is anyone's guess.

Versus say the next ultimate being tuned to only one ilevel, i600. I get their argument is more of "we made content that is only tuned for best-in-slot so try that". That's really not enough, like all content in the game needs to be able to use the healer buttons better. It doesn't have to be challenging either.

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While you aren’t wrong about item level differences between week 1 prog and now (week 12 or 13; can’t remember), healers still were primarily pressing their nuke even during week 1. At most I had a handful of Eukrasian Prognosis casts for super safety gamer prog, but by and far the majority of my GCDs were still my single-target nuke. And it only gets worse with gear.

Mitigation being primarily oGCD doesn’t really break it up much. Weave in a Kerachole or Holos for my mitigation, tank throws up theirs, phys ranged uses theirs, etc.. It still doesn’t break up the monotony of a healer’s “rotation”. And while I imagine there will be more super safety gamer healing in DSR during prog, by the time I clear, my single-target nuke casts will still outweigh all of my healing casts combined by a mile.

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Originally Posted by Ixon

They stated that they weren't going to do major reworks till after the next Ultimate most likely because they don't want to break jobs or break the Ultimate that was already delayed so much. So this thread will be poppin off when 6.1 is just potencies and minor adjustments.

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If it was stated as such, those "major reworks" they're talking about are reserved for the DPS role. For Healers, this is just another roadblock they've added to further prolong their detour from having to tread through healer feedback and concerns, just like the promised healer "rework" was really just an excuse to push back the need to re-assess the role by using the sheen of a new job in order to sidestep the responsibility after sidelining it for 2 expansions. So while, yes, the thread will certainly be filled with exciting and renewed takes on the dev team's willful ignorance and the white-knighting that will happen because players are excited at getting another nugget of story to play through, it'll be just another Friday to the healer community.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

If it was stated as such, those "major reworks" they're talking about are reserved for the DPS role. For Healers, this is just another roadblock they've added to further prolong their detour from having to tread through healer feedback and concerns, just like the promised healer "rework" was really just an excuse to push back the need to re-assess the role by using the sheen of a new job in order to sidestep the responsibility after sidelining it for 2 expansions. So while, yes, the thread will certainly be filled with exciting and renewed takes on the dev team's willful ignorance and the white-knighting that will happen because players are excited at getting another nugget of story to play through, it'll be just another Friday to the healer community.

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I see they've moved the goalposts even further.

The same thing that gets trotted out every new expansion:

1) Don't complain about what was shown pre-release until you try it yourself!

Followed by

2) Don't complain about it until you reach max level!

Followed by

3) Don't complain about it until the first raid tier is here!

Followed by

4) Gotta wait until the Savage Tier is released before we can change jobs!

NEW ITEM!!

5) Wait until Ultimate is released so we can really see how jobs play at the tippy top level! Despite the fact only a few percentage of the total player base actually plays or completes Ultimate content.

Followed by

6) You're just playing it wrong

7) Meanwhile, the thing that was complained about before the expansion drops, the developers acknowledge something is wrong and take 6 months to fix it (on top of the months we took to get to this point) instead of taking feedback early and fixing it then. To which the white knights will shout from the rooftops:

"Look at SE listening to our feedback!!"

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Originally Posted by Ixon

They stated that they weren't going to do major reworks till after the next Ultimate most likely because they don't want to break jobs or break the Ultimate that was already delayed so much. So this thread will be poppin off when 6.1 is just potencies and minor adjustments.

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It's almost endearing how people keep falling for these "Wait until...!" statements.
We've heard the "Wait until...!" statements for years now and the only thing that changed is that things got worse if they didn't get ignored altogether. If you honestly still believe that there's a mAjOr rEwOrK coming after Ultimate, you're naive. We're lucky if WHM gets fixed during this expansion because they sure weren't in a rush during SB or ShB to do it. Anything that actually changes the gameplay into something better?
Maybe next expansion... no, actually not. Because that, too, has been asked for years and if anything, they doubled down on it.
Sage is their vision of a "dps focused healer" - and plays exactly like the other 3.

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

It's almost endearing how people keep falling for these "Wait until...!" statements.
We've heard the "Wait until...!" statements for years now and the only thing that changed is that things got worse if they didn't get ignored altogether. If you honestly still believe that there's a mAjOr rEwOrK coming after Ultimate, you're naive. We're lucky if WHM gets fixed during this expansion because they sure weren't in a rush during SB or ShB to do it. Anything that actually changes the gameplay into something better?
Maybe next expansion... no, actually not. Because that, too, has been asked for years and if anything, they doubled down on it.
Sage is their vision of a "dps focused healer" - and plays exactly like the other 3.

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They literally could have made the Scholar ability Fey Union focus on a team member and heal when you casted and it would function literally exactly like Kardion.

Because Hydaelyn knows the fairy gauge is pointless now.

Just think, we lost the ability to manually apply Embrace on SCH, and then they essentially gave it to Sage.

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

It's almost endearing how people keep falling for these "Wait until...!" statements.
We've heard the "Wait until...!" statements for years now and the only thing that changed is that things got worse if they didn't get ignored altogether. If you honestly still believe that there's a mAjOr rEwOrK coming after Ultimate, you're naive. We're lucky if WHM gets fixed during this expansion because they sure weren't in a rush during SB or ShB to do it. Anything that actually changes the gameplay into something better?
Maybe next expansion... no, actually not. Because that, too, has been asked for years and if anything, they doubled down on it.
Sage is their vision of a "dps focused healer" - and plays exactly like the other 3.

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I was just stating what was said, what Yoshi said, in a previous live letter or interview or whatever. It appears that the "11111" echo chamber is so loud people are having issues just reading statements it seems.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

I see they've moved the goalposts even further.

The same thing that gets trotted out every new expansion:

1) Don't complain about what was shown pre-release until you try it yourself!

Followed by

2) Don't complain about it until you reach max level!

Followed by

3) Don't complain about it until the first raid tier is here!

Followed by

4) Gotta wait until the Savage Tier is released before we can change jobs!

NEW ITEM!!

5) Wait until Ultimate is released so we can really see how jobs play at the tippy top level! Despite the fact only a few percentage of the total player base actually plays or completes Ultimate content.

Followed by

6) You're just playing it wrong

7) Meanwhile, the thing that was complained about before the expansion drops, the developers acknowledge something is wrong and take 6 months to fix it (on top of the months we took to get to this point) instead of taking feedback early and fixing it then. To which the white knights will shout from the rooftops:

"Look at SE listening to our feedback!!"

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Let's add in

8) Wait until next expac, Ultimate is coming in X.1/Savage in X.2/Savage in X.4 and we refuse to do major balance patches to avoid upsetting balance.

Couldn't agree more. Healing is really, really boring now.

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Originally Posted by Ixon

I was just stating what was said, what Yoshi said, in a previous live letter or interview or whatever. It appears that the "11111" echo chamber is so loud people are having issues just reading statements it seems.

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Oh goodness gracious me, I wonder if the evil 11111 echo chamber hasn't heard "we're not making adjustments this patch so don't expect anything" over and over and over again for years. We know how to read. Yoshi's been telling us that we're not getting reworks or outright ignoring us for years. We're not surprised, we're just telling you that this is part of the normal "just wait until the expansion" -> "just wait until you level" -> "just wait until savage" -> "just wait until the balancing patch" -> "you just don't understand how good and engaging 1111111111111111 is until you've tried it" endless cycle.

"You're not going to get a rework next patch" isn't some sort of gotcha. Maybe the state of healers is so awful that it warrants a rework, even *gasp* during a patch that normally doesn't see them? Oh wait, they're not DPS, that's not going to happen. Only DPS get that.

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Originally Posted by Ixon

I was just stating what was said, what Yoshi said, in a previous live letter or interview or whatever. It appears that the "11111" echo chamber is so loud people are having issues just reading statements it seems.

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I'm not so sure about that given how they changed Ninja, Summoner and Samurai and Astro in 5.1 on the eve of TEA. Even then when was the last time healers ever got reworked to a huge extent outside of expansion releases? You may have how a move changes like Sleeve Draw or some mp reshuffling but nothing so drastic as what they did with NIN, SMN, and SAM in 5.1 or MNK in 5.4

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Originally Posted by Ixon

I was just stating what was said, what Yoshi said, in a previous live letter or interview or whatever. It appears that the "11111" echo chamber is so loud people are having issues just reading statements it seems.

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No. The issue is that Yoshida and the developers have been telling healers to “wait until [insert content/patch here]” since before Stormblood even launched. That was in mid-2017. It started with healers saying that the Stormblood Lily System on WHM was crap when the Media Tour tooltips were released. “Please wait until expansion launch to try it.” Expansion releases, Lilies still suck. “Please wait until Savage.” “Please wait until Ultimate.” “Please wait until 5.0, because we cannot do any major adjustments until then” (that was back around patch 4.4, iirc). For the ShB Media Tour when they revealed that DNC wasn’t going to be a healer, “Please wait until 5.0. We are going to work on healer balance and make adjustments to each job.”

Healers have been told to wait for a long time. We’ve been constantly pushed to the side. We’re always given excuse after excuse as to why our gameplay cannot be considered and/or adjusted. So pardon us if we’re just tired of hearing the same stuff for the last 4 to 6 years.

What I would personally love, is for WHM and SGE to have a 3 to 4 button combo with 1 or 2 ogcds. I would have SCH have dot management (akin to 2.0 SMN) and have AST have a 2 button combo with an expanded focus on the card system.
I would also have it, so that no healing skill (ogcd and gcd) would break the combo system; so there little punishment for healing when needed.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

I'm not so sure about that given how they changed Ninja, Summoner and Samurai and Astro in 5.1 on the eve of TEA. Even then when was the last time healers ever got reworked to a huge extent outside of expansion releases? You may have how a move changes like Sleeve Draw or some mp reshuffling but nothing so drastic as what they did with NIN, SMN, and SAM in 5.1 or MNK in 5.4

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From Letter from the Producer Live Part LXIX:
Y: "A lot of jobs changed in 6.0-6.05, and we've read all the feedback and will keep it in mind while adjusting jobs. We won't be able to make super big changes because DSW balance will be affected"

Oh thank God, they've read the feedback and will make adjustments.

I can't wait for a 100 MP cost reduction on Medica 2 while being told "now you are more able to gain further enjoyment from your healer kits. Please play Ultimate if you are still unsatisfied".

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Oh thank God, they've read the feedback and will make adjustments.

I can't wait for a 100 MP cost reduction on Medica 2 while being told "now you are more able to gain further enjoyment from your healer kits. Please play Ultimate if you are still unsatisfied".

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Don't forget the buff for their nuke spells too by 10p! Hopefully that will shut those who ask for more dps buttons up! Oh wait...

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

For the most part, yes. Ultimate simply deals far more outgoing damage. However, even that remains both scripted and inconsistent. Take TEA, for example. The first two phases, Living Liquid and BJ/CC deal significantly higher damage than Alexander—making the whole fight heavily frontloaded. Once you reach Alexander, it's all just a mechanical dance with the healers having not much more to deal with in terms of damage than your average Savage fight. Mega Holy and Trine do hit particularly hard but you'll have essentially your whole toolkit for them.

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Thank the twelve honestly with having your whole kit. I remember seeing the unreal trials and getting excited I could go into leviathan with my whole kit on any class. The idea of an old trial being kind of scaled for a different level was super cool. I never got to do them because I admit I am slow to get into content sometimes, because there is so much to do in here. I was excited to try it as bard and dust poor bard off and have to think about what reflected physical or magic damage and have to swap targets to not get wrecked. And if dancers dance would destroy you with reflect damage if you hit both the head and the tail because the range of the dance is huge when it wants to be.

Aye I thought as much about Ultimates. They way that they design things made me figure this was the case and the statement Yoshi p made was just....baffling. I can't even think of an analogy of this that is good. It is like telling someone who enjoys dark souls, If you like difficulty like dark souls try 'insert game name here' that has unfair one shot mechanics when that is not why people play dark souls. Yes you can get wombo comboed in there but for the most part it is the slowly learning the new fancy footwork, dodge patterns, and how the bosses ai works that makes it fun, at least to me. It is also super fun to see how the bosses react to using a ranged weapon, how easy it is to stagger them, just experimenting is really fun mixed with the thick fog of silence.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

We can only speculate, but it seems the dev team has a radically different (or perhaps, stubborn), perception of how we actually play. They seemingly believe healers regularly GCD heal while using their oGCDs for emergencies. Keep in mind, they do watch World prog, where even the best healers are playing extremely safe despite still spamming their nuke. That's the only rationale I can conclude for why they keep adding new healing abilities when the kits are bloated enough already. Unfortunately, that isn't how we play—especially in lower end content. Equally unfortunate is whenever people bring this up we get dismissive responses like the thread title, causing that disconnect to continue. Frankly speaking, it's inexcusable to me an entire role essentially spams one button for 60-90% of the content they partake in, regardless of its difficulty. That's just poor design.

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I know in the past gcd healing was I think really the only way in like 1.0 and pre 50 currently, but with their current design for content, with heavy movement phases having those ogcd's are essential sometimes people get deleted in two hits depending on gear and what level you are at not having those moments you can quickly heal someone, could keep them off of the floor.

I think they call it theory of mind, but I can not theory of mind around what strange thought process the devs have sometimes. They have like multiple personalities or jekyll and hyde situations sometimes. Many things are living rent free like the random things they mention and just never implement and say nothing about like they never said those changes in the first place. 'If we don't address them maybe everyone will forget about some of the things we said.' Like a cat with no object permanence. They look away and the problems no longer exist they look back "OH god the problems there are so many they exist!" look away "oh what was I doing? I am really thirsty all the sudden"

It is kind of silly, but also very sad to me sometimes.

So, the game is "dps is king" build by Yoshida and his Dev's. Fact.
WHM: Lily's why is this still not dps neutral ? Why do i have so little control over Liturgy of the Bell? Thin Air is weird now... why ? Whats up with mana ?
AST: Card RNG + Astrodyne so weak ist does not matter and way to many buttons for so few things its doing
SGE: Kardia is overheal (and the only reason i cant say "SGE healer through damage is a lie") and annoying, Phlegma no reach ? Why?, Pepsis is for what again? Toxicon is dps loss .
SCH: Whats up with the no interaction Fey ? Whats the purpose of the fearie gauge ? kill it and make Aetherpact a cooldown, why is the fey so strong ?
All healer: please change 1111211111 - thats boring, why is GCD healing so punishing regarding the dps-meta you are fostering and grooming ??!!!

All healer suffer from too strong OGCD in combination of medigation (feint, addle...) and all damage is predictable. But the healers are build as if were damage not predictable and dps not all that is rewarded (healing is binary- 1 point more hp then damage is the same as if i would spamming medica 2. fact).
Yoshida said for many yeras now "rework" "we work" and so on but never delivered, its same for the galmour system or housing: He knows, its bad and should be changed ASAP but for unkown reason he blocks it and we get nothing or even worse (looking at you housing). Then he proceeds to blame " you not understand" "players schould read" - We read, we listen and came to the conclusion - You will ignore us until we are loud and annoying. I donw want to be OP, as you stated "you cant get this, its op and you dont understand.." Sorry but some of us are also Dev's or work in the same Industry as you and have an idea what we are talking about and see that you are throwing excuses. Remember "fun first" then what ever else. If you think the "DPS-Meta" is bad then change it but dont throw the healers under bus and say "hey we dont have dps-meta look at healer"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ixon

They stated that they weren't going to do major reworks till after the next Ultimate most likely because they don't want to break jobs or break the Ultimate that was already delayed so much. So this thread will be poppin off when 6.1 is just potencies and minor adjustments.

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I know I got my pitchfork ready when I read the WHM adjustment being just a cost reduction to Cure 2

How long does it take for a community rep to do anything about a popular thread? This one has over 180 upvotes and almost 100 pages of replies. I can only expect this to be moved or closed since nothing from the reps for over a month now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Don't forget the buff for their nuke spells too by 10p! Hopefully that will shut those who ask for more dps buttons up! Oh wait...

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Nah, they’ll just up the proc rate of Freecure to 50%. That’s far more important than 10 potency on Glare III, duh. And that’ll make WHMs happy!! Right? RIGHT?!?!?!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Minarisweet

How long does it take for a community rep to do anything about a popular thread? This one has over 180 upvotes and almost 100 pages of replies. I can only expect this to be moved or closed since nothing from the reps for over a month now.

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Community mods generally only close threads if they are problematic. Rarely because they’re too large (like the original Tales from the Duty Finder and Show Your Mi’qote threads). That they haven’t posted in here doesn’t mean much—they don’t post in threads often.

That said, the jaded healer in me doubts anyone has even looked at it. Regardless of the amount of traction it’s getting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Community mods generally only close threads if they are problematic. Rarely because they’re too large (like the original Tales from the Duty Finder and Show Your Mi’qote threads). That they haven’t posted in here doesn’t mean much—they don’t post in threads often.

That said, the jaded healer in me doubts anyone has even looked at it. Regardless of the amount of traction it’s getting.

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JP Forums get more looked at than NA ones for sure. Partly because it's a JP game whose main target are JP players, and another part that the JP forums are usually not as, lack of a better word, emotional than NA ones. A lot of JP posts are very concise, to the point, with reasoning and examples, pros and cons, etc, etc. The word of mouth I have heard is the community managers scrape the forums, consolidate the information, then feed it back to Dev HQ for them to mull over. There definitely used to be way more interaction on the forums from the community managers, unsure what started the decline, most likely it just turned into attacks and name calling. Especially with how hostile the forums have become lately, I'm not surprised they aren't sticking their neck out to the community chopping block.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Nah, they’ll just up the proc rate of Freecure to 50%. That’s far more important than 10 potency on Glare III, duh. And that’ll make WHMs happy!! Right? RIGHT?!?!?!



Community mods generally only close threads if they are problematic. Rarely because they’re too large (like the original Tales from the Duty Finder and Show Your Mi’qote threads). That they haven’t posted in here doesn’t mean much—they don’t post in threads often.

That said, the jaded healer in me doubts anyone has even looked at it. Regardless of the amount of traction it’s getting.

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I wouldn't complain as much if we got more content in exchange for all the simplification, jobs have basically become roles, but we don't get anything in exchange. Nothing ever improves, it only gets worse, and for what? To protect legacy content? Well it isn't working, most older content, including MSQ finales, are rapidly blasted apart. None of that would be worth making people play hundreds of hours to get core abilities either way.

The only content changes in recent years have been that they took the few sad dungeons we had away from us and patches are now slower. If we can't have more battle content can we at least have Aero III back? Aero III died for nothing!