So... that spiderman shirt... (new job tease)

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Originally Posted by Iromi

Just watch the JP fanfest 2016 live stream segment of Naoki Yoshida's room, its there. Watched it myself live and he did indeed say all the stuff about BLU not coming for a while and how it would have the Profession of Monster book or some junk.

It is mentioned and shown in the reddit JP mega thread for that day also.

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Thank you! :D

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Originally Posted by Dorander

Sorry about that, edited for a bit more info. Still looking for a more recent interview about it.

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Its all good. Iromi pointed out where I can find the info! :)

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Thank you! :D



Its all good. Iromi pointed out where I can find the info! :)

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Was just about to say: Iromi beat me to it.

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Originally Posted by Dorander

but I'm concerned when it comes to playing in a party players would put up barriers if you haven't learned certain abilities.

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Was thinking about people's desire to keep Blue Mage learning from monsters but the valid worry that if you didn't learn certain spells people would find you severely gimped and annoying to play with.

Possible weird solution:

Blue Mage is split into brackets, level 1-10, 20-25, etc, etc. Blue Mage doesn't level the normal way but rather levels through obtaining abilities, he unlocks new brackets when he fills out the previous one. Some abilities coming from dungeons/trials to keep him wanting to not just solo the entire time. Would make his leveling pace a bit funky, depending on what he had to do - its possible he could level the fastest, or slowest, depending on bracket and what was in it. It could be controlled more so that certain abilities in the bracket come after others, if people wanted to emphasize certain abilities like capstone level 70 ability.

Personally I imagine learning less on chance this time around, like taking a hit vs watching it is worth certain amount of points, an ability that increases defense ('shadow skin' 'sentinel' like ability) could also increase learning points so if you timed it right even better, and perhaps dungeon/trial versions are worth more as well. So you just fill up the EXP bar of a specific ability to learn it, that bar being filled up granting EXP to your job. I don't think they'd give Blue Mage significantly more abilities than other jobs just because I think they'll try to keep it playable on a controller, or at least they'll use some sort of "class" or "slot" system to force a maximum at one time. I imagine just picking out iconic / interesting theme'd / use abilities instead than giving them all is what would happen (easier to balance, less clutter).

But the point of this idea, which could be mutated and refined, is that you couldn't join a level 70 dungeon without being level 70 and you couldn't be level 70 without having all the appropriate abilities. So when a dungeon has a minimum level requirement they're actually setting a minimum blue mage ability set requirement.

Still run around get abilities in the wild, it just determines your EXP now and you don't EXP the regular way. Of course there are many other ways you could do it too, just a thought.

Also aside on the Blue Morpho lol: morpher isn't a major class in FF games but I do like jobs that can change shape, would be fun imo - I like transformation jobs.

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Originally Posted by Iromi

Just watch the JP fanfest 2016 live stream segment of Naoki Yoshida's room, its there. Watched it myself live and he did indeed say all the stuff about BLU not coming for a while and how it would have the Profession of Monster book or some junk.

It is mentioned and shown in the reddit JP mega thread for that day also.

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I think that is a significant mistake if he does that, not that implementing Blue Mage HAS to be done but that he would implement it as not a job that can function in game as other end-game jobs. If he wants a monster book he should just do that, but if he takes Blue Mage and turns it effectively into a non-DoW/DoM, I think that would piss off a lot of blue mage fans. Vs just making a book of monsters.

Unless i'm misunderstanding the meaning you were infering, like Blue Mage gets a monster book and is DoW/DoM - the book just lets him control his abilities. I'm understanding your statement as he means to make Blue Mage /only/ a mini-game and not a functioning class like Red, White, or Black Mage, in which case I think it'd be better he doesn't reference it to blue mage at all.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I think that is a significant mistake if he does that, not that implementing Blue Mage HAS to be done but that he would implement it as not a job that can function in game as other end-game jobs. If he wants a monster book he should just do that, but if he takes Blue Mage and turns it effectively into a non-DoW/DoM, I think that would piss off a lot of blue mage fans. Vs just making a book of monsters. Unless im misunderstanding the meaning you were infering, like Blue Mage gets a monster book and is DoW/DoM - the book just lets him control his abilities. I'm understanding your statement as he means to make Blue Mage a mini-game.

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Do you think it would be feasible, and if it'd be taken positively, if Blue Mage was made into its own content? Perhaps, the Book of Monsters is taken literally and its solo-friendly content that's about hunting down and fighting against different monsters and learning more combat capabilities to use against future fights.

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Originally Posted by Lewtskie

Do you think it would be feasible, and if it'd be taken positively, if Blue Mage was made into its own content? Perhaps, the Book of Monsters is taken literally and its solo-friendly content that's about hunting down and fighting against different monsters and learning more combat capabilities to use against future fights.

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you mean like... the hunting log?

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Originally Posted by RaijinSupreme

you mean like... the hunting log?

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Take the hunting log, inject some steroid X into it, give it a clever story, and maybe some hellish endgame. Instead of multiple throwaway mobs, you're specifically going after unique enemies, not unlike Hunts but you're killing them to learn from them and develop your monster arts. It can be a whole story delving into Blue Mages and could offer infor and history into different creature families and enemies for lore nuts.

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Originally Posted by Lewtskie

Do you think it would be feasible, and if it'd be taken positively, if Blue Mage was made into its own content? Perhaps, the Book of Monsters is taken literally and its solo-friendly content that's about hunting down and fighting against different monsters and learning more combat capabilities to use against future fights.

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Feasible, absolutely~! A good idea? Maybe not. If Blue Mage isn't a job like Black, White, Red Mages are - then I think it's a bad idea even if it's entirely feasible one. A bestiary monster book, basically an enhanced hunting log, could be really neat content but I really think using that idea to irradiate the pressure of people wanting Blue Mage is a bad one.

Like "hey guys look I made Blue Mage see? Now stop asking for it!" is what I feel that system is attempting to do, and I think that'll just get people calling him names and pissing off more people than just never actually implementing it.

Not that the content he wants to design for blue couldn't be interesting, not saying throw out the Book of Monsters :D, perhaps it'll be fun and he should keep the Book of Monsters. However, he should not pretend like the job was made in game as a mini-game and all is well :P. Better to separate them out then.

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Originally Posted by GMERC

absolutely not

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Absolutely yes. His old idea was completely reaffirmed live on stage the second day of the JP fanfest. As well as a comment that we won't be seeing beastmaster (or a new pet job) for a long time (maybe 10 years he said).

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Dots

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A shame, but you're absolutely right. Not being able to do normal content as it would be bittersweet at best.

Thought your idea was pretty neat. Leveling itself has room to be wonky and oddly designed so long as the end result can be satisfying.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

Seems more that Yoshi is pointing out the flaws in a traditional Blue Mage playstyle with an MMO setting, rather than stating it'll never be on the slate for FFXIV. Like RDM, it could be they decided that its more important to honor the aesthetic of the class over the substance.

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Agreed 100%. It seems likely that the only thing traditional about RDM will be the artifact armor look. RDM has a history of learning the exact same spells as a BLM and WHM albeit at higher levels. But, I'm pretty sure that RDM will not be sharing ANY of the BLM or WHM spells like Fire 1,2,3 or Cure 1,2,3 like it has in every other Final Fantasy title. FFXIV is reinventing the Red Mage. Why can't they do the same thing with Blue Mage? Just watch, RDM won't feel like a traditional RDM once you outgear the initial 4.0 artifact armor and you equip the next patch's generic mage gear shared by Summoner and Black Mage.

Red Mage will no doubt be a blast to play and kick ass in the ranged dps department. But, glamour will be it's only saving grace for tradition. So when we argue about why BLU won't work in an MMO setting or how SAM can't be a tank... Just look at RDM and see that FFXIV does not have to stick with tradition at all and can recreate any job as long as it looks the part.

yeah the BLU is really touchy subject i cant really say will or wont work either way, it can be made but people may not be very satisfied, i was more of a rdm fan than a blu so im not as terribly sentimental about it as someone who is a big fan of BLU would be. For balance sake, we all know exactly what formula will have to be taken, and exactly how many skills and traits(for now) they will get every x levels, and then theres the role-forcing its skill set to mostly lean a certain way, if just an open world jpb for anything besides dungeons trials and raids, maybe. probably not instance pvp either, Or BLU could do both, and the books/spells could be given to a companion chocobo or something, while in dungeons itd have the same typical role-based skill set. Bad ideas, i know im sorry

Just a reminder to a lot of people arguing in this thread, but currently a DRK is a DRK in visual aesthetics only. Expect whatever class is coming up next to either be completely new or be a butchered bastardised version of your "vision" for the class.

I could see Blue Mage being added with the current combat formula in mind. DPs, Tank, Healer, filling one of those roles. The idea of being a Professor of Monsters isn't mutually exclusive as others have said. The idea of it being a job-specific hunt log/sightseeing log is quite appealing to be honest. Blue Mage enabling an in-game bestiary would be fantastic. Seeing something unique like that for other jobs would likewise be pretty interesting. I'd love if Black Mages could gather information about different kinds of Voidsent. Or if Paladin was able to fight various, 'Champions,' of Eorzea, building a bit of background on characters, such as the Company of Heroes.

Obviously you can't really do something like that with every job, but I think it would still be a fascinating addition to the game and really help make the Jobs have more flavor and individuality from one another.

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Originally Posted by Rosalynd

Just a reminder to a lot of people arguing in this thread, but currently a DRK is a DRK in visual aesthetics only. Expect whatever class is coming up next to either be completely new or be a butchered bastardised version of your "vision" for the class.

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http://i.imgur.com/vkSbIbp.png

This silly complaint again? Listen, I literally subbed to FFXIV in hopes of Dark Knight being announced, got it announced 4 months later, and was more than satisfied with it being a Tank. Would it have been cool to have a DPS that uses its HP as a resource? Maybe, but I can't imagine myself trusting random healers to keep me in a good spot healthwise, nor do I think it would necessarily be a good idea to design a DPS job that needs babysitting from a healer. It sounds like what you really wanted was a job that would be built as the star of the show (a Carry role), and have a job that could be catered to and bring the best damage to a situation, and that's just not a good design in this sort of game at all.

All in all, I'd have been all right with either a Tank DRK or a DPS DRK, just as I'll be ok with a Tank SAM or a DPS SAM, despite my preference being for the latter. I'm not going to pretend that Square Enix "butcher bastardized" the job just because they do something I don't like with it. Get over yourself.

Next you'll tell me DRK should have used a Scythe and throw away whatever credibility you might have had.

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Originally Posted by Rosalynd

Just a reminder to a lot of people arguing in this thread, but currently a DRK is a DRK in visual aesthetics only. Expect whatever class is coming up next to either be completely new or be a butchered bastardised version of your "vision" for the class.

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DRK encapsulates every notable aspect of past DRK'S except for that it doesn't sacrifice HP, which it still partially has at least in spirit by having such strict resource costs for Dark Arts. It's far from a "bastardization", stop being dramatic.

The only argument this really works for is perhaps Summoner.

Edit: Also, it's entirely possible we will see a future DRK ability that does sacrifice a bit of HP. I wouldn't fault SE for holding such a thing back until people were more comfortable/adjusted to the job or gating it at a higher level after players can be more experienced to at least hopefully use the skill better. I for one hope they do add at least one such skill, if only to put an end to the viewpoint that the job is somehow incorrectly implemented/executed

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Originally Posted by GMERC

snip

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You may have had a point if i was one of those "ermahgerd scythes" goons, but i am not. To me, the dark knight is someone who uses their own life force to augment their attacks with dark magic. An aspect that so far has not appeared in game. They tried with magic drain and kinda failed.

Don't get me wrong, i like the dark knight in its current iteration, is even my main, but you are a delusional fool if you think it has ANYTHING to do with past iterations of the job outside of visual aesthetics, and this is my point. People expect a certain thing with blue mage or samurai or whatever, but as XIV has shown, they don't really give a damn about past iterations and people need to realise that. What you expect a blue mage to be may be entirely unrelated to what the end product could end up as.

Also, off topic, but that picture outs you as the epitome of an edgelord, male xaela au ra death knight, all checkboxes ticked!.

Edit cause type limit: And lol, get over myself? pot calling kettle black there mate.

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Originally Posted by Rosalynd

You may have had a point if i was one of those "ermahgerd scythes" goons, but i am not. To me, the dark knight is someone who uses their own life force to augment their attacks with dark magic. An aspect that so far has not appeared in game. They tried with magic drain and kinda failed.

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I pretty clearly laid out why what you're suggesting isn't something that would work in this game, though. It's the kind of mechanic that's extremely shaky in anything that isn't either a singleplayer game or something you build your entire party around bolstering.

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Originally Posted by Rosalynd

Also, off topic, but that picture outs you as the epitome of an edgelord, male xaela au ra death knight, all checkboxes ticked!.

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Can't out somebody with nothing to hide, little miss Shadow the Hedgehog.

Dark Knight in Tactics is similar. They absorbs HP and MP off enemies with skills, didn't sacrifice HP (that I remember)

Edit: they had 2 sac HP skills, but otherwise, its a pretty good fit. Saccing HP as a tank would be a bad idea in an MMO.

I actually went reading through a bit about Dark Knights in various Final Fantasy games. On the whole most DKs don't have many HP-draining abilities (usually two at most), though some had more then that. Bravely Default actually seems to have had the most amount of such. XI also seems to be a bit higher having three from what I see either draining-HP or being dependant on damage taken. They also had a move that decreased their defense for more attack.

While XIV DK doesn't have any HP-Sacrificing moves, nothing says the devs might not add them in at some point. The more levels we get the more one SHOULD be better at their job as well as those around them, plus given how much we see healers talk about how healing by itself isn't that bad/too easy something like Darkness could be seen as a way to keep them on their toes as well...so long as it has the potency to make up for the loss of Healer DPS in the eyes of the player base.

As an aside, it would probably be a good idea to stop snipping/name-calling each other. Noone is going to see eye-to-eye when everyone is being aggressive against each other.

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Originally Posted by GMERC

I pretty clearly laid out why what you're suggesting isn't something that would work in this game, though. It's the kind of mechanic that's extremely shaky in anything that isn't either a singleplayer game or something you build your entire party around bolstering.

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So basically we agree on the reasons something like a blue mage is not going to be what people want it to be.

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Originally Posted by GMERC

Can't out somebody with nothing to hide, little miss Shadow the Hedgehog.

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Ohhhh, scathing.

Samurai(SAM)
(*Probably beating a dead horse on this one now*)

why?
Datamine notes
NPC references after 3.5, similar to NIN
Was 1st choice over DRK

I dont mind blue mage being in the game and it would be interesting to see how they did it, but first things first, Samurai.
Let the weebs be satisfied and released from their anguish
#FreeTheWeeb

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Saccing HP as a tank would be a bad idea in an MMO.

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Unless if they make it work as an OT mechanic were it would help make use of the extra tank HP to push dps further when NOT tanking.

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Originally Posted by Rosalynd

So basically we agree on the reasons something like a blue mage is not going to be what people want it to be.

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If you have a look at my posting history (in particular in this very thread) you'll find that my idea of what a Blue Mage should be in this game already goes against the general consensus opinion. I am totally unphased by the possibility that it might not be a job that has to learn its abilities through being hit by equivalent enemy attacks, because that isn't the part of Blue Mage that matters to me, just as cast-from-HP abilities aren't the part of Dark Knight that matters to me.

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Originally Posted by Rosalynd

To me, the dark knight is someone who uses their own life force to augment their attacks with dark magic. An aspect that so far has not appeared in game. They tried with magic drain and kinda failed.

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On what grounds did they fail?

There's nothing saying that HP has to be the sacrificed resource in order to strengthen their attacks. MP can be (as far is lore is concerned) just as relevant to sacrifice as HP, minus the risk of death. Which, by the way, still exists through dropping Grit, which sacrifices your defenses for higher damage output.

The theme of the Job still exists, it's just a different weapon, different resource, which makes sense because it's a different game.

Samurai (imo) lacks a solid theme throughout the games, so I don't think anyone can nail down a specific play-style they expect. I'm sure most people will be happy with it, considering that fact. Blue Mage can work in the game as a Tank pretty easily, but glorious leader Yoshi P seems to have different ideas for it. I think peeps should just keep an open mind to things instead of expectations that might not be met.

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Originally Posted by GMERC

I am totally unphased by the possibility that it might not be a job that has to learn its abilities through being hit by equivalent enemy attacks

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Blue Mage could still gain abilities through being hit by an enemy attack. Just quest-enemies and not roaming ennemies.
But for that, we need several things :

• The job needs to start at level 1. This way, you wouldn't be able to dive right into party content before having the opportunity to do job quests.

• Each job quest from level 1 to level 60 (or 70) will give 1 new spell, contrary to class quest that only scarcely offer a new skill during the 1-30 time. This would give at least 16 monster skills to learn (No idea how many quests we'll have from 60 to 70). Considering Black Mage only learns 15 spells, that's actually not that bad. The 11 remaining skills would be learned by leveling from 1 to 50 and would mostly be abilities to further enhance the spells, with some weapon skills in the mix.

• For icing on the cake, what could be interesting is that you could chose between several spells when you tackle a quest, so the order in which you learn the spell while leveling could be different depending on your tastes.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

The job need to start at level 1. This way, you wouldn't be able to dive right into party content before having the opportunity to do job quests.

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Right. If they ever end up making BLU they can't make it anything above level 30... it would take the experience away entirely.
I don't really agree with the new jobs starting at 50 either, I thought 30 made sense because all jobs start at 30.

I'm hoping the new Jobs will still have a similar number of quests to other jobs, despite starting at a higher level. Kind of a tutorial of sorts. So the first 6 Quests are back-to-back.

Quest 1: Get the Crystal, your AF Gear, and an AF-matching weapon.
Quest 2: Learn the Job's Offensive Rotation and abilities.
Quest 3: Learn the Job's Defensive Abilities and when best to use them.
Quest 4: Learn the Job's Healing Abilities and when best to use them.
Quest 5: Learn the Job's Utility Abilities and when best to use them.
Quest 6: Learn Chainspell and how to use all Job abilities to properly use Chainspell.

Then the next Quest gives you incentive to go to Dravania on a Quest, and you do your 52, 54, 56, 58, and 60 quests.

Considering they didn't do proper 1-30 tutorial for DRK, MCH and AST, and that they struggled to keep a full fledged-story between 30-50 and 50-60, I won't keep my hopes high for that.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Considering they didn't do proper 1-30 tutorial for DRK, MCH and AST, and that they struggled to keep a full fledged-story between 30-50 and 50-60, I won't keep my hopes high for that.

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Everybody near me saying that the new jobs must start at lvl 50. Can anyone confirm that ?

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Originally Posted by Watachy

Everybody near me saying that the new jobs must start at lvl 50. Can anyone confirm that ?

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Well, they announced that their plan is to make new jobs start at 50. As for wether it's a good starting point, well...it's up for debate.

The 2nd job's going to be a tank "animist"

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Originally Posted by Watachy

Everybody near me saying that the new jobs must start at lvl 50. Can anyone confirm that ?

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If it helps according to a slide I saw RDM can be accessed in a 2.0 area and the only stipulation is being level 50 and having stormblood, so...seems like it. Otherwise it would be an odd thing to do in my opinion rather than just letting us open it at 30.

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Originally Posted by Ralts

The 2nd job's going to be a tank "animist"

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If it involves shapeshifting into animals, count me in. Tiger tank stance, wolf DPS stance, etc...

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Originally Posted by Vexander

If it involves shapeshifting into animals, count me in. Tiger tank stance, wolf DPS stance, etc...

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I thought animists are animal-strength conjurers, not shapeshifters? Or make them shapeshift their hair: like for the 100%wool ability it'll turn their hair afro 😅

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

If it helps according to a slide I saw RDM can be accessed in a 2.0 area and the only stipulation is being level 50 and having stormblood, so...seems like it. Otherwise it would be an odd thing to do in my opinion rather than just letting us open it at 30.

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Odd but not surprising since they're killing of things for accessibility ?

"Want a new job but don't wanna xp and bother yourself with the story about the job ? Here they are !"

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Originally Posted by Watachy

"Want a new job but don't wanna xp and bother yourself with the story about the job ? Here they are !"

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Well, that's more complicated. The story of the job might not have anything to do with the actual story of the expansion so it wouldn't make much sense to restrict it behind MSQ completion.
Just look at DRK. They could have made the job available outside of Ishgard without really changing its lore, and thus, even new players could have unlocked it.

Oh SE... Why must you keep mentioning the Samurai name in this game... You will give people the wrong idea this patch..

https://i.imgur.com/OeaZVxV.png

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Originally Posted by Remus

Oh SE... Why must you keep mentioning the Samurai name in this game... You will give people the wrong idea this patch..

https://i.imgur.com/OeaZVxV.png

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Because they're probably not giving people the wrong idea. Its not a question of if we'll get Samurai. Just when. Stormblood makes sense.

That said, I still think the spiderman shirt references Blue Mage. Samurai will just be the 3rd revealed class.

Ala Mhigo and Samurai go together like Katanas and Highlanders

http://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/wp-...highlander.jpg

I mean with a name like "Stormblood" they are practically shoving the Quickening in our face. To everyone with all their hopes and opinions I humbly put forth..... There can be only one... possible option here. That and the data mine.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

Because they're probably not giving people the wrong idea. Its not a question of if we'll get Samurai. Just when. Stormblood makes sense.

That said, I still think the spiderman shirt references Blue Mage. Samurai will just be the 3rd revealed class.

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You know, I almost hope this is how it goes. Spider-Man references BLU or DNC or ??? and then right after effing BAM! Samurai sweeps the show. Even though I would love to have something themed after Blue mage (I still believe it'll be tied to void and act like the symbiotes Venom and Carnage) I've gotten used to the idea of SAM and hope they have fun with it. Really would like it to be anime as hell and a DPS, but I'll take what comes. If nothing else I'll always have WAR