The New Chat Restriction in The Feast

Seriously we need chat back in The Feast. Its hard for me to tell my team mates that the medal horder is " Hiding at their spawn, somebody come with me just in case of healer. "
I had more than my fair share of matches where the medal horder is ignored because they go off to hide,which is no problem because it's good to get outta the fighting pit if you're carrying a lot. I notice these things though & would like to point it out to help my team succeed if they had not noticed it too.

Over a year of negative feedback, and never a solid response on it.

Sure, it's hardly the only problem plaguing PvP now, but the bigger concern is and should be once the problems remain, but people aren't complaining at all anymore. . .

A friend of mine got banned recently for

1) his party's tank died at last 5s for not following the *Quick Chat* fall back call outs.
2) friend proceed to send TELL to him
3) Explain him what went wrong and why they lost
4) the Tank perceive my friend that he is harassing the tanks
5) Proceed to report my friend,
6) friend got banned.


Hello SE, if only chat was still there and actually have the ability to communicate the call outs detail on the winning conditions.

I think this is why they're relegating Feast to team matches that you'll be able to chat in. You get chat back, but only with people on your team. So it's a sort-of compromise.

Oh no, you still can't use it in the Feast. Think of it like an FC chat, but team only.

Bring back feast chat

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

So it's fair then to judge PvPers by this guy's poor attitude? Please tell me how that's even remotely right or fair?

Would it be fair of me to say all people from your server act like you do, or might you see that flaw in your logic there?

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It is not fair, but the quote below sadly only support SE's naive actions. I really wish they would revert the changes, but I highly doubt stubborn Yoshi-P will change his position if he saw comments like the one before in the main thread talking about the restrictions.

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Originally Posted by Headhunters

im disappointed in having to add on my FL a guy that i will flame right after and then delete him from my FL. What a loss of time

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Originally Posted by Mofafafa

A friend of mine got banned recently for

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Don't tell a stranger after a hardfought match like that and break down what he did to lose it. He probably knows already, and doesn't need you to rub salt in the wound, no matter how polite you try to be. Especially when the loss is still fresh. if you want to mentor people, make a pvp linkshell on your server and recruit for it.

That's the thing. You can't guarantee they know what they did wrong, and you wouldn't need a PvP LS if - IF you were able to simply speak to a teammate when it really matters.

I've made mistakes and gotten POLITE tells offering tips and advice too. I can't verify the truth of the story, nor what was said and how, but it would hardly be the first time someone's reacted poorly to being given advice. Hell, I've had people just leave the dueling circle when ask permission to offer helpful tips (usually after seeing them lose for lack of knowing/doing something). The bigger point is that sending tells wouldn't be necessary IF players could actually communicate with each other, and I think it's a bigger insult that SE pretty much says we all can't behave ourselves, so no one gets to speak at all.

With chat or without doesn't matter much. He might have left before you could say anything after the match. Just don't /tell someone after a lost match pointing out what they did wrong and giving advice; it's not the right time to do it because they still are dealing with the adrenaline and emotions from it, and tbh you are too. Its better to say something positive, which is why I mentioned the shell: "Hey, it sucked we lost but it was a close match. Wanna join my pvp shell so we can try again sometime?" This is just an aside; chat or no chat, try not to offer advice right after a bitter or emotional loss.

What better time to offer advice than right after? Let time pass and perhaps that person won't even remember what happened. Or worse, lose another match for themselves and their team for lack of knowing. But really, we assume too much. Fact is, they were offered advice and rather than take it, or even ignore it, they chose instead to be petty and report it as harrassment. Who was really being "toxic" there? Again, neither one of us can say without knowing what exactly was said, but the fact remains that that wouldn't even be necessary were it not for this "fix" creating more problems than it solved.

I mean, its clearly the "tank" that i spoke of isn't understanding that what was the losing condition that he could've won the game if he understand whats happening in the first place, this wouldn't be happened...

We as the players got punished for SE decision to implement the Chat Restriction. If there isn't any discussion going on and giving feedbacks based on the match's performance, how are the community is going to improve??
Now we are back to square one where the *PLAYERS* who deemed the PvP toxic because they do not want to accept feedbacks based on their lackluster performance because they simply do not accept criticism, same goes for PvE
Harassment is another case.

Usually every game will have discussion going on when win or lose and giving feedbacks to each other to improve, some player even records the whole game to check what went wrong or could've done better...

Just because the "player" is sensitive, it does not simply give him a reason to ruin the other 3 party members experience because of him not accepting criticism to improve the quality of game-play in a game.

You don't criticize someone right after the match in an intrusive /tell, especially if you don't know them. If you were an actual team, you'd hit the showers first and let the athletes get over the emotional impact of loss, then you meet up and get out the whiteboards and show the game and what happened, and then work together analyzing mistakes. But you aren't that guys coach, nor do you have the right really to do this; you're just some random guy suddenly /telling them after the match from afar, and someone who really doesn't have the same connection. So if you try to do this, its adversarial from the start because you haven't really built that team connection. And people don't often act polite if they do that; the anger at a loss through no fault of your own is pretty strong, and can color how you try to "help" the person.

This is also behin the same fear people have with parsers. You can't just be random internetguy and intrude via tell to criticize from a position of authority, even if you werent the one who screwed up. You need that team relationship first, so that the person isn't on edge from the intrusion and also isn't dealing with your anger at him losing the game for you. It's just really bad to try and /tell someone and immediately assume that authority of coach when you've never even seen the guy before or talked to him in game, especially when it has to do with performance issues. But if you invite him into a pvp linkshell and make him part of the team in a sense, it works much better for everyone. Power dynamics can screw stuff up pretty badly, and this is just even if you try to be polite; I was reamed out personally in a tell after by someone with no real basis than losing as a healer (against rum raisin of all people, it was that early in the feast)

No Riyah.

First, you have the mistaken impression that it's criticism when sometimes it's really just passing along helpful advice.

"Hey man, when we're ahead like that and time's running out, it's better if we pull back and ride it out rather than take the risk."
"Make sure you won't be picking up too many medals before grabbing them next time. If so, let someone else get them."
"Hey, next time let's try to go after the same target together. We might be able to get them before their healer can react."

Nothing toxic at all in those words, and things I've actually said to others before, right after a match. As I said before, most times it's better to reflect and breakdown what happened right away while it's still fresh to remember. Sure, sometimes you might need to calm down first, but any athlete worth something will be receptive to advice, even after a win.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Nothing toxic at all in those words, and things I've actually said to others before, right after a match. As I said before, most times it's better to reflect and breakdown what happened right away while it's still fresh to remember. Sure, sometimes you might need to calm down first, but any athlete worth something will be receptive to advice, even after a win.

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We're not Athletes though Thunder, we're people playing a game and in my experience of the chat with randoms people didn't really give advice once the game was over they just insulted you if they didn't think you should be playing

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Originally Posted by Mofafafa

A friend of mine got banned recently for

1) his party's tank died at last 5s for not following the *Quick Chat* fall back call outs.
2) friend proceed to send TELL to him
3) Explain him what went wrong and why they lost
4) the Tank perceive my friend that he is harassing the tanks
5) Proceed to report my friend,
6) friend got banned.


Hello SE, if only chat was still there and actually have the ability to communicate the call outs detail on the winning conditions.

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This generation of snowflakes...

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

We're not Athletes though Thunder, we're people playing a game and in my experience of the chat with randoms people didn't really give advice once the game was over they just insulted you if they didn't think you should be playing

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I approach this game with the mindset of an athlete, rather, I approach competition in that manner. If I'm going to do something, I want to do it well. I won't always do it well, but I will try. That's all you can ask of someone. Now, if someone gives advice - and mind you, I've given plenty based on experience and still been told I'm wrong - it may be worth listening if it's constructive. At a certain point, you've got to stop wearing your feelings on your sleeve or thinking they're all out to get you and listen and wisen up. Opponents who want to win as bad as you do are not going to pull any punches, and not every person you meet in your adventures is going to have something nice to say. If you're ready to cry wolf and refuse to listen when people are actually being nice and helpful, you're in for a real bad time when they won't be.

Mind you, this is no excuse for nasty tells or rude behavior. I've stated this. We can share all the annecdotal experiences we want. For every person that got a nasty tell, I've gotten a heartfelt thank you, or answered questions and given or received advice from some of the top players on my data center, and imparted that same knowledge to others. The PvP community was too small to be trying to force people out or burn bridges. HOWEVER, I can't pretend I didn't see the same issues there that I've seen in PvE content: People either refuse to, or don't care to learn, and everyone has a poorer experience for it.

With nothing but the facts presented, we're left with this: The tank didn't listen when told - via Quick Chat - to fall back, and his team suffered a loss for it. That person took the time to explain what happened and why they lost, and rather than listen OR ask any questions if unsure, they took it as a personal attack, and retaliated. If it were SE's plan to create a competitive environment where everyone is forced into silence lest even the kindest word be taken out of context (irony considering the most sarcastically spammed QC phrase) we'd have a much, MUCH bigger problem than players being nasty toward one another. Because if players can't share and help each other, those who know will continue to win, and those who don't will lose repeatedly, until perhaps they somehow figure it out. And when those two are put on the same team, one will certainly be more of a liability to the other. And I've said it before: I don't know anyone who enjoys losing a game, especially due to the actions of others.

I don't know. I just explained why someone might get mad enough to report or blacklist someone, and a little on the psychology of giving criticism to strangers. Up to you if you want to handwave it away by saying "special snowflake" or "Well, I do this so its good for them to do it too" have fun. I mean, its rare in either case, most would just blacklist you if you annoyed them or they were on edge anyways, or just brush you off. You can argue "this is how people should be," but they often aren't.

If anything, you're simply handwaving any other viewpoint that doesn't suit your narrative.

Consider that this can go two ways from here:

A. That tank is going to be an easy target for others who actually WILL say something negative due to his throwing matches and not even knowing what he's doing wrong.
B. That tank may possibly reflect on what was said and perhaps remember that next time his team is calling to "Fall back!"

If he doesn't want to listen and just believe everyone's so toxic and out to get him, A is very likely going to happen. But if he perhaps stops for a moment and reflects properly on the match (as opposed to shrugging it off and just jumping into another), B will happen, and it will be a greater benefit to him and his future teammates.

This is competition. There is no safe space where your feelings matter above all others. Even the best players lose. The difference between that tank and the best players is that they were willing to listen and learn. Some ask questions. Some accept advice or criticisms. . . and some learn the hard way. It doesn't matter how they learn, so long as they do.

Let's get back to the chat restriction downside,

Another friend of mine in which is one of the top healer in JP, he is quite famous "for what i know" from western pvp discord specificly for "The Feast" got issued his very first warning regarding quick chat *spamming*

The *spamming* for abusing quick chat can be reported and recognized for the GM to issue a ticket for the player that press the same button for more than 3 times.

This friend of mine, got teleported to the jail *LIVE ON STREAM* and when he asked what's wrong to the GM, the GM responded, you were reported for flooding the chat by spamming quick chat which is *Fall Back!*
So, if only there wasn't a chat restriction, he wouldn't be getting his first warning as he could be typing

*fall back* isn't really a passive aggressive word such as *Nice job* * Good Game*

but he still got reported because of him simply trying to win the game, getting caught up into the adrenaline of the game.

So i must say, the players once again got punished for the chat restrictions.

Like for real tho, communication such an important factor in competitive situation. Quick chat is certainly improving time over time but it will never replace the full chat functionality, and quick chat button is contradicting SE very own 9 button purposes gameplay.

...would that JP use a macro for fall back anyways if we had chat? I mean, there's an argument for not being able to communicate before and after a match, but I don't think during a match the quick chat hurts. That's an issue of overzealous GMS...if we had text chat I'd be making call macros anyways and would risk the same thing.

edit: to be honest too, with ranked team feast its hard to even want to bother with solo queue any more. If im reading right, ranked team enables chat again, and removes entirely the problems with coordinating with randoms totally. It's really everything you guys would want in a mode, and solo queue to me has always been a mess in any pvp game. Given this community everyone going to ignore it again except wintraders lol

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

If im reading right, ranked team enables chat again, and removes entirely the problems with coordinating with randoms totally.

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It already had those perks when it existed before (doubly with voice apps). It was even easier to make a team, too, since you didn't have to register anything, you could just take any random four people and queue at leisure.

People are still going to queue solo because organizing four people to be online at the same time on a schedule isn't something most people want to do. This starts a positive feedback loop: Since people don't want to organize a team, there are less teams there. Less teams means slower queues. That in turn makes organizing a team harder, because you're waiting longer on a game. That makes people even less inclined to organize a team. Start from the beginning.

What I personally would just love to see from it, if only for the hilarity of it, is SE inviting a bunch of wintraders to an official tournament because they're the only people in the team ratings. That'd be a real shocker. But that's drifting off topic.

Well what do they expect? They want a team based mode that shows coordination and skill, but they can't be helped to actually make teams and use the team based mode. They want to try to herd cats with randoms to do it, despite it simply not working all that well the two years they tried to do it, and it being impossible to fix in a way that satisfies everyone and can address vulnerabilities done by people who don't care about being good players. What is the solution?

Listening to the dedicated playerbase might be a good way to start.

. . .said ThirdChild on page 96 of the over year-old thread filled with negative feedback on a chat restriction that never solved the problem it was meant to, and created bigger problems.

Oh at this point if the community wants 3.0 and chat, just give it to them. I'll just eat popcorn and watch people as they discover it doesn't fix a darn thing. Just might as well shut up the community so they can't beg for fixes that don't address issues any more; then they'd have to face the whole herding cats thing and might discover team based play.

if quick chat will solve all the problem, please tell me how will one player tell a team member he have more than a few stacks? healer have 0 OGCD. please enlighten me all mighty riyah

Alright Riyah, all the proof that this chat restriction has NOT solved the problem it was intended to is all through this thread. And for different reasons entirely, I actually went through the entirety of it again today. Find me somewhere that someone noted - realistically - that the chat restriction has actually helped them or somehow improved the Feast experience. That's my challenge to you.

3.x vs 4.x PvP, we're not having that debate today. We've done that so many times and gotten nowhere, that I just don't feel like disproving whatever you might seem to come up with on the fly. Not today.

It's worth noting however that in the absence of proper communication and tuning, SE's REALLY trying to double down on "foolproofing" the Feast where it's just not needed. Rank being unaffected by rating loss (via highest rating per season being static)? Medal caps? Light Medal buffs? Open your eyes and see that they're simply patching the holes that have been made by overall poor handling of their "premier" PvP all this time. Instead of proper balancing, they think tweaking numbers and reshuffling skills will fix issues with a fundamentally lacking "foundation" of a system? They still haven't even revealed the Season 6 prize and there's only 3 days left.

This problem runs deeper than what you clearly don't even see. And yet SE would have people thinking that things are getting better, or that we've got a "foundation" for a better overall PvP experience. . . really? Cause it seems to me that players being able to communicate effectively with each other (this is completely separate of possible issues with conduct) would alleviate the need for baked-in medal caps, like we were fully capable of before. Light medal is unnecessary because no one will bother going after the guy with almost no medals, but now they're giving him a defense buff. Basing rank off highest rating points gained would be a good idea if issues with queues weren't already a prevalent thing, and it feels a lot like a crutch given to protect players from rating losses due to others who don't know or don't care what to do and how, and because no one can even tell them, both due to the restriction, AND possible fear of reprisal from someone who suddenly decides they're too sensitive and not only can't stand losing, but can't even understand their own actions that caused it.

THIS is the reality of what's happening now, but you're too busy trying to posture as someone with the answers, and it needs to be said that you're not. You're NOT. You have been disproven and corrected, on this and many other things on this forum, SO many times that I actually feel bad about it. I strongly suggest you really take a look at what's going on before trying to speak out again.

They keep trying to foolproof it because you are working with randoms. They limited the medals because you can't rely on solo queuers not hogging them, and then literally losing the match for you. They nerf rotations because all it took was one dps who struggled in with his HW rotation to doom the match, again. They removed CC because it really highlighted the difference in skill via healers; an average one would just get their butt kicked while the dps ignored them and used purify on themselves and didn't cover. You keep saying "communication" but randoms didn't communicate when we had chat half the time, and all it takes is one guy who doesn't listen to make it a loss. An it just takes one guy who uses chat to ream out someone instead of playing to not only cause a loss, but possible sour players off the mode altogether.

I mean, you keep blaming the player for not getting good instead of realizing the mode is so high skill that it just takes one person to wreck it, and not even through the whole match. That tank lost it in the last five seconds because he missed one signal. Or all it takes is the healer getting tired and not able to counter cc for ten seconds, letting the tank who has all the medals be killed since the healer is the only one who can keep them up. They are trying to soften this I think, because randoms can;t really handle this level of coordination and skill in the same way you can't make them handle hard pve in party finder. That's not going to change if we revert everything to 3.0, and right now all this "it was better in the old days" is just hiding that.

So Idk, we can give you 3.0 back. right now its just counterproductive, you fixate on it, so get it out of the way so people cant use the new stuff as a scapegoat. Maybe then they will embrace ranked team play or something.

In no way am I defending SE actions regarding removal of chat.

As players we lack any data but maybe in the eyes of SE and the info provided by their data they view the change as a success since maybe report frequency has had a noticeable decline. Of course this is only speculation.

I wish they would revert said changes, until players get some thicker skin, or the numbers for feast fall into the single digits. I do not see stubborn Yoshi-P reverting the change.

There's no way to ask for assistance if you're being attacked. The last three feast matches I got targeted by both enemy dps instantly, and my team started attacking the tank. :confused: Quick chat doesn't have an option to say "i'm being targeted, protect your healer."