Yoshi P talks about Warriors- from Producer Letter Live @ TGS

The group that i play with went all the way up to BC turn 4 with 1 WAR and 1 PLD. Our WAR decided to reroll PLD and now we have turn 4 down lol. (Beat turn 4 last week)

All in all, I do think some changes have to be done to Warriors. Just not mitigation because that would defeat the purpose of the class.

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Originally Posted by Altsein

The group that i play with went all the way up to BC turn 4 with 1 WAR and 1 PLD. Our WAR decided to reroll PLD and now we have turn 4 down lol. (Beat turn 4 last week)

All in all, I do think some changes have to be done to Warriors. Just not mitigation because that would defeat the purpose of the class.

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I don't think some additional mitigation will defeat the role of the class. If you were to, say, add an ability similar to sentinel that would allow a WAR to take heavily reduced damage over a short period of time, it wouldn't all of a sudden turn them into mitigation tanks because they have one ability that mitigates dmg. Hell, you could make it eat wrath for "flavor" if you need to. PLD would still be more mitigation centric and WAR would still be more self-healing centric.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

I don't think some additional mitigation will defeat the role of the class. If you were to, say, add an ability similar to sentinel that would allow a WAR to take heavily reduced damage over a short period of time, it wouldn't all of a sudden turn them into mitigation tanks because they have one ability that mitigates dmg. Hell, you could make it eat wrath for "flavor" if you need to. PLD would still be more mitigation centric and WAR would still be more self-healing centric.

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I can see that working. What i meant by not adding mitigation though, is more along the lines of how PLDs are able to take less dmg passively compared to WARs.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

I believe most people are already aware about that part of the interview and it's why they're worried.

The point the concerned WARs here are trying to make is: what exactly is he expecting us to research?

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^ This post. It's a good post.

There are only a few ways to change your character: Stat Allotment, Materia Melding, Additional Abilities, and Gear.

Stat Allotments have been tried up and down differently. Nothing is been conclusively proven about how to allot for WAR other than -> VIT or STR. (I lean towards VIT)
PLD and WAR share all the same Gear options outside of their main weapon - even their AF/AF2 gear sets are similar. PLD can Parry/Block - WAR can only Parry.
Melding Materia is to enhance additional stats not already present in the gear make up - much of the endgame gear is not meldable.
Additional Abilities for WAR add no mitigation -> a single self heal and more chance at crit? Here - Evade/Crit Rate/Evaded ~ Slow/Healing +20%/ Healing +5%/1 Time Heal based on ATK/Savage Blade are our options.

Yoshida says players haven't researched - but what is there to try? I'd be wholly confused if they do not intend to change the WAR job in any way whatsoever.

I'm starting to think in 8 man WAR should simply act as a DPS and only tank OT - when the PLD goes down cover the boss just long enough for the healer to raise them and get them ready to go again because we don't seem to last long otherwise.

blind developer worship sums up pretty much all of the hilarious opposing views in this thread

never any actual data or points, just theory

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

The point the concerned WARs here are trying to make is: what exactly is he expecting us to research?

Because beyond the discrepancy created by Shield Oath, Rage of Halone and wearing a shield, there's all the defensive cooldowns that WAR doesn't appear to have much answer for either and I don't see where some magic bullet is going to come from that can make up for all that.

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I'd wager that, in looking at the defensive cooldowns, you're looking left when you need to be looking right. Warrior is not a mitigation tank - so, survive elsewhere.

Hiir Noivl's posts here seem to have it down. If you're trying to mitigate - wrong class.

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Originally Posted by Makeda

I'd wager that, in looking at the defensive cooldowns, you're looking left when you need to be looking right. Warrior is not a mitigation tank - so, survive elsewhere.

Hiir Noivl's posts here seem to have it down. If you're trying to mitigate - wrong class.

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I look at both sets of cooldowns and abilities in order to determine what's the best way not to die. Mitigate, self-heal, improve healer effectiveness, whatever.

You can look at PLD and see all the dmg reduction abilities or the improved convalescence and see how effective it is in keeping the PLD alive.

Now take a look at the suite of abilities available to a WAR, and even what benefit you can get from other classes. I mean, Hiir Noivl's really pushing what a WAR is capable of, stacking certain stats, maximizing cooldown timings, maximizing group abilities and even kiting while tanking. The problem is it STILL doesn't sound like he's matched the baseline ability of a PLD not to die. A little extra DPS from a WAR does not make up for that in a group setting where your primary jobs are to A) keep the enemy focused on you and B) don't die.

I'm fine with there being a "hard mode" tank where the class is more intricate and you need to be more careful and reactive to what's going on in any given fight. But when you work harder to be a less effective tank, that's just dumb, and it certainly looks like how it's playing out at most levels of the game.

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Originally Posted by Makeda

I'd wager that, in looking at the defensive cooldowns, you're looking left when you need to be looking right. Warrior is not a mitigation tank - so, survive elsewhere.

Hiir Noivl's posts here seem to have it down. If you're trying to mitigate - wrong class.

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We don't want more mitigation. We want our self heals that suck (storm's path and bloodbath) not to suck, and we want our +healing from defiance moved to defiance itself instead of having it depend on the amount of wrath we have. We don't want new or paladin skills, we just want what we have to work up to par with PLD skillset in terms of efficiency.

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Originally Posted by Makeda

I'd wager that, in looking at the defensive cooldowns, you're looking left when you need to be looking right. Warrior is not a mitigation tank - so, survive elsewhere.

Hiir Noivl's posts here seem to have it down. If you're trying to mitigate - wrong class.

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Someone who thinks he has a 1.25 second global cooldown probably sounds less stupid to a level 26 who doesn't yet know that such a thing is entirely impossible. Blind leading the blind.

Please tell people doing Coil how to play the game when you have absolutely no basis to even form an idea of how the class functions.

I just did a great Garuda Run. We had a PLD who knew his stuff and with me We just stayed together and both tanked Garuda. I was able to freely DPS. When she was about to do Aerial Blast I lowered my DPS to make sure he had hate and then I took the red beam sister and just destroyed her HP and let the Party finish her off and went right back to Garuda.

It was one of the best runs yet with Garuda. I was taking some damage but I could heal myself for plenty and not take a whole lot of heals from the PLD.

Maybe people are swinging too far in favor of PLD? They should at least try to include WAR tanks with their set ups.

I believe that is the research Yoshi P is suggesting.

No silly I'm saying I might have a less than 2 but not 1.25. It might be exactly 2 or right around 2.1 but it certainly isn't close to 2.5. And this is with Fey light mind you.

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Originally Posted by Zanther

Bragging about how awesome you are at garuda is like saying how awesome you are at killing lvl 16 story bosses while wearing DL gear. Garuda is at the point where my 7 year old nephew can beat it as everyone is geared for it now.

But continue to ignore my coil comments on how bad warrior tanks are on things that require both hands to beat.

Honestly, its getting harder to hear you all the way up here in turn 5.

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I'm not bragging. What you just did is bragging. I swear I'm talking to school kids were every time I open my mouth it's

NO NEVER NUH UH FORGET IT YOU'RE DUMB :PPPPPP

In fact, I can do Garuda with 0 tanks. No healers. No DPS.

I can solo Garuda... Asleep

So there. :P

You like to throw troll bait in my direction instead of contributing you and others like you while, later on, you'll be playing WAR.

Look dude. Just because you can't tank WAR on Turn 5 doesn't mean it's not possible. Like I said, the level of hubris is way too high.