BLM

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Originally Posted by Eyria

So, most of you still agree that this -> [ Blizzard 3 (Umbral 3) -> Thunder 3 -> Fire 3 (Astral 3) -> Fire 1 (until Firestarter procs) -> 500 mana -> Blizzard 3 (Umbral 3) -> Repeat. --> Thunder 3 on every Thundercloud proc] is the best rotation so far?

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The beginning is something I've heard differently from a lot of places.

Some go Thunder II > swiftcast Fire 3 > fire 1(until proc) > 500 mana bliz 3, and use T3 on procs.


The only thing overall that annoys me about blm is that Firestarter's proc triggers when F1 hits the target, not on cast, if they keep it on hit, let us use the proc outside GCD.

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Originally Posted by Qvoth

question for you blms, what are your opinions on eye for an eye?
my acn is only at level 12... i guess sooner or later i'll level the acn to learn it....

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This is a vital cross class ability to help your healers for the 2nd half of Binding Coil of Bahamut. It will relieve dmg and in turn help your healers out not have to heal. This will also let them use a lower rank heal that would in turn generate less threat.

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Originally Posted by Rigus

Sorry I'm alil late here. So transpose is useless?

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Very situational, ideally you wouldn't want to use it or need to if done in a "perfect" rotation and timing of mods.

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Originally Posted by Eyria

So, most of you still agree that this -> [ Blizzard 3 (Umbral 3) -> Thunder 3 -> Fire 3 (Astral 3) -> Fire 1 (until Firestarter procs) -> 500 mana -> Blizzard 3 (Umbral 3) -> Repeat. --> Thunder 3 on every Thundercloud proc] is the best rotation so far?

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Pretty much sums it up, my rotation is below.

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Here is my rotation currently, please give any input that you see may be improved upon.

Single Target Rotation

• Pre Cast Thunder III just before tank pulls during a count down
• Swiftcast (Opener) + Raging Strikes (Cross Skill from Level 4 Archer) + Fire III (To get a 3 stack of Astral Fire)
• Fire (Till 15%-20% MP)
• Blizzard III (To get a 3 stack of Umbral Ice for large MP regeneration ticks)
• Thunder II (Reapply only if needed)
• Fire III (3 stack of Astral Fire reapplied)
• Fire (Till 15%-20% MP)
• Repeat Rotation....

Situational Reminders (For Single Target DPS)

• Only use Fire III when you have a 3 stack of Umbral Ice (Reminder when you have either 3 stack of Umbral Ice or Astral Fire, it will cut the cast time of your ice / fire spells by 50%.)
• Only use Thunder II when you are in Umbral Ice state, this will give you time for your MP consumption from Umbral Ice stacks to tick..
• Only use Thunder III when you have proc Thundercloud.
• While using Fire always weave in your free instant cast Fire III from Firestarter

AoE Rotation

• Fire III (To get a 3 stack of Astral Fire)
• Fire II (Till 20% MP)
• Blizzard III (To get a 3 stack of Umbral Ice for large MP regeneration ticks)
• Fire III (Target highest HP mob)
• Fire II (Till 20% MP)
• Blizzard III
• Repeat Rotation....

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Originally Posted by mpetason

Apparently it's when it connects. I usually end up using it after the next cast since you are about halfway in when you get the proc. Either they need to change it to on cast completion it procs, or allow it to stack instead of having travel time + hitting the target before you know you have it. Finish your cast, use the proc, and I guess accept that you will sometimes miss the chance to use every proc.

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If it procs while you are casting, you finish the cast, then, white the next fire 1 is in transit, insta-cast fire 3, can you launch that fire 3 in time for the fire 1 you were casting to trigger a new proc?

I really am curious where the idea of Thunder II cast + Thunder III for procs came from. Do people have data on this? The tool-tip explicitly states if you use Thunder II for the dot, your thundercloud procs will have a 295 potency no matter what rank thunder spell you use to trigger it. Whereas using Thunder III gives a 345 potency thundercloud proc, again no matter what rank use you to trigger it.

So if you cast thunder II and a thundercloud procs, you can hit Thunder I, II or III and they will all do the same damage. There's no "bonus". Is using Thunder III for procs, putting up Thunder III's dot(instead of re-applying Thunder II's) and then that turns all future Thundercloud procs into the 345 potency instead of 295, until you hard cast thunder II again?

I'm not seeing the benefit of losing 50 potency per cloud proc for .5 seconds of cast time(outside situations with tons of movement).

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Originally Posted by Cinge

So if you cast thunder II and a thundercloud procs, you can hit Thunder I, II or III and they will all do the same damage. There's no "bonus". Is using Thunder III for procs, putting up Thunder III's dot(instead of re-applying Thunder II's) and then that turns all future Thundercloud procs into the 345 potency instead of 295, until you hard cast thunder II again?

I'm not seeing the benefit of losing 50 potency per cloud proc for .5 seconds of cast time(outside situations with tons of movement).

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I think the argument about the time was more about time spent sitting at full MP, and not spamming fire, than it was about movement. But I have only seen conjecture, no math yet, but it seems possible that getting back to fire spam .5 sec quicker might be better than a few more tics and a more frequent/potent proc.

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Originally Posted by Cinge

I really am curious where the idea of Thunder II cast + Thunder III for procs came from. Do people have data on this? The tool-tip explicitly states if you use Thunder II for the dot, your thundercloud procs will have a 295 potency no matter what rank thunder spell you use to trigger it. Whereas using Thunder III gives a 345 potency thundercloud proc, again no matter what rank use you to trigger it.

So if you cast thunder II and a thundercloud procs, you can hit Thunder I, II or III and they will all do the same damage. There's no "bonus". Is using Thunder III for procs, putting up Thunder III's dot(instead of re-applying Thunder II's) and then that turns all future Thundercloud procs into the 345 potency instead of 295, until you hard cast thunder II again?

I'm not seeing the benefit of losing 50 potency per cloud proc for .5 seconds of cast time(outside situations with tons of movement).

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"Grants a 5% chance that after each damage over time tick inflicted by any Thunder spell, the next Thunder, Thunder II, or Thunder III will add its full damage over time amount to its initial damage, have no cast time, and cost no MP."

I don't see anywhere in the tooltip that it states a set base potency on proc. Due to not stating a base potency, the clear choice here is the highest one.. which would be Thunder III.

Keep in mind when you overlap thunder debuffs they do not merge, you will lose the dps on the remaining ticks from the "refresh."

i think more than most here are assuming hardcasting a higher rank spell will do more overall damage
this is incorrect

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Originally Posted by Elvine

"Grants a 5% chance that after each damage over time tick inflicted by any Thunder spell, the next Thunder, Thunder II, or Thunder III will add its full damage over time amount to its initial damage, have no cast time, and cost no MP."

I don't see anywhere in the tooltip that it states a set base potency on proc. Due to not stating a base potency, the clear choice here is the highest one.. which would be Thunder III.

Keep in mind when you overlap thunder debuffs they do not merge, you will lose the dps on the remaining ticks from the "refresh."

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You forgot to bold one extra word. It makes a big difference. See: here

Read Descriptions for Thunder and friends. Specifically states that, if you cast Thunder I, you will do a 240 potency for the Thundercloud even if you use Thunder 3. I haven't done tests but, I see no reason for tooltips to not be telling the truth.

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Originally Posted by HoroBoro

You forgot to bold one extra word. It makes a big difference. See: here

Read Descriptions for Thunder and friends. Specifically states that, if you cast Thunder I, you will do a 240 potency for the Thundercloud even if you use Thunder 3. I haven't done tests but, I see no reason for tooltips to not be telling the truth.

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The tooltips for the individual Thunder spells are inaccurate. Or rather, you would want to focus on the tooltip for thundercloud:

Grants a 5% chance that after each damage over time tick inflicted by any Thunder spell, the next Thunder, Thunder II, or Thunder III will add its full damage over time amount to its initial damage, have no cast time, and cost no MP.

If you test it in-game, you would find that it actually holds true.

When you get a thundercloud proc, if you mouseover the tooltips, you would see that the first line of the tooltip changes to Deals lightning damage with a potency of 240/295/340, respectively for T1, T2 and T3.

Further testing on dummies also shows that a Thunder III thundercloud proc does more damage than a Thunder thundercloud proc. In my case, Thunder III does around ~750 dmg, whereas Thunder only does ~500 dmg.

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Originally Posted by Elvine

"Grants a 5% chance that after each damage over time tick inflicted by any Thunder spell, the next Thunder, Thunder II, or Thunder III will add its full damage over time amount to its initial damage, have no cast time, and cost no MP."

I don't see anywhere in the tooltip that it states a set base potency on proc. Due to not stating a base potency, the clear choice here is the highest one.. which would be Thunder III.

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Not sure which Tooltip is right, but you should check out the Thunder I,II,II tooltips.

Thunder III
Additional Effect: 5% chance after each tick that potency of next Thunder, Thunder II, or Thunder III will be 340, have no cast time, and cost no MP

Thunder II
Additional Effect: 5% chance after each tick that potency of next Thunder, Thunder II, or Thunder III will be 295, have no cast time, and cost no MP

Thunder I
Additional Effect: 5% chance after each tick that potency of next Thunder, Thunder II, or Thunder III will be 240, have no cast time, and cost no MP

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Originally Posted by Elvine

Keep in mind when you overlap thunder debuffs they do not merge, you will lose the dps on the remaining ticks from the "refresh."

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Also that is not exactly true, you should check out how DoTs/HoTs are working in this game. In FFXIV:ARR you could even get a little DPS BOOST with DoT clipping. (random)

Here's a guide which shows pretty clear how DoTs/HoTs are working in this game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQGGTKgL8-g