Make healers DPS with four or five healing actions

IDK what was meant here either, the reason I said what I said here:

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

So long as it's a situation identical to this one (where I am wrong, get corrected, and then try to continue talking from a position of knowledge on the subject using the updated information, as if I knew the 'real answer' all along), sure go nuts

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Is because I'm fine with getting told 'you don't get to speak because you got something wrong', as long as the situation where it happens, is identical to the one that happened here. I'm just, not giving carte blanche to just say 'oh Roe said something again, everyone discard what was said, because she was wrong about something a few months ago', because that would be silly. Or I could, but the same would apply to everyone, now that'd be funny

I'm also not sure what 'good conversation' was happening, other than us being told that we remembered things wrong (despite me not going from just memory, but also archived copies of the job guides). I also am quite stringent with liking posts, and 'haha dogpile on one guy on forum' is not one of the reasons I go by. Mostly 'I resoundingly agree with the point re: game design that this user has just made' is what does it

Well, you destroyed the flow of this one. Good job.

Until next time. o/

Okay, back to tpic.
Can we talk about role design for healer and encounter design are not matching. At all. To make it simple we have WoW healers but not the WoW encounters. We are missing the part were the healer role needs to heal damage spike, cleanse people, keep an eye on the tank or he get shredded to pieces. There is non of that and on top we have almost no desicion making. We do the same always all day, all encounter across the board. A Roulette healer, a Savage healer and even a Ultimate healer play extremly close because the "skill ceiling" is reduced for no reason. THe diffrence is only the mechanic of the fight BUT these mechanic are the same for everybody. So whats the point of healers ? Whats the plan? I dont see one.

I would like to see
1. reduce OGCD's - we have way to many and they are way to strong in healing/mitigation powers and have a way to high frequenz
2. give bosses more tank herrasment that enables good tank and healer gameplay aka more boss damage and random spikes
3. give us healer mechanic's to solve that involve the healer kit - *sarcasm* dps can kill the party because they are not doing theire mechs properly, so give us the possibilty to wipe the party too *sarcasm*>.<
4. give us DPS and healing tools that interact with our kit... yes i look at you WHM Lily's and SCH Moskito gauge
5. give us the agency to make choices as healer's and work with our partner together to keep the single braincell aka tank alive (its a joke dont hurt me ;P)

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Originally Posted by Banriikku

Okay, back to tpic.
Can we talk about role design for healer and encounter design are not matching. At all. To make it simple we have WoW healers but not the WoW encounters.

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Ehh... do we even have the kind of meaningful/affordance-producing utility that WoW healer kits carry, though? WoW's healer kits are almost like vital puzzle pieces, where no healer has all the answers, but can nonetheless make do with sufficient output among the pieces it can't cover and/or through the cross-role utilities of Tanks and DPS. That's hardly the case here. But yes, our counter design just... does not care to push healers to nearly the extent that WoW's will.

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I would like to see
1. reduce OGCD's - we have way to many and they are way to strong in healing/mitigation powers and have a way to high frequeny
2. give bosses more tank harassment that enables good tank and healer gameplay aka more boss damage and random spikes
3. give us healer mechanic's to solve that involve the healer kit - *sarcasm* dps can kill the party because they are not doing their mechs properly, so give us the possibility to wipe the party too *sarcasm*>.<
4. give us DPS and healing tools that interact with our kit... yes i look at you WHM Lily's and SCH Moskito gauge
5. give us the agency to make choices as healer's and work with our partner together to keep the single braincell aka tank alive (its a joke don't hurt me ;P)

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These all sound pretty good to me, though I suppose [3] is worth considering further to make sure we're all on the same page regarding the types of mechanics worthwhile, and [5] may need a sort of threshold, such that tank skill-gap isn't reduced to purely allowing their healers more offensive GCDs.

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Reposting my wishlist from a few pages back:

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

• To adjust fight design (for older fights, where/as pretty formulaically possible or otherwise doable at low cost in dev time) to increase the instances of between-bursts damage, ideally with a degree of randomization that can better keep us on our toes and keep healing feeling urgent instead of just "Ehh, next AoE isn't for another 20s anyways".
• To increase downtime agency through an extra 1-3 non-healing actions per job, though not necessarily at additional button cost, ideally with frequent desired timings but no strong punishments for missing them (absolutely no interruptible combos, in any form, nor similar BS).
• To greatly rein in AoE heals, such as by having at least half of their output be split among all applicable allies affected.
  
  
• To decrease healing output in general, such as by reining back non-Healers' free (especially, on-ally or AoE) healing and removing Healer's +30% damage and healing done Maim and Mend traits, with only their attacks' potencies being increased in compensation (via far more significant upgrades in going from tier 1 to tier 2 spells, etc.) alongside whatever ppm comes from the new actions. The traits' removal would also have the QoL benefit thereby also making 1 potency of healing at a given amount of primary stat the same for a WHM as it is for a PLD as it is for a RDM, etc.
• For Tanks to likewise lose their Tank Mastery bonus and a portion of their massive Defense, Magic Defense, and Vitality advantages on their gear, but to nerf only OHKO tankbusters to match, thereby noticeably increasing tanks' damage taken.
  
  
• To trim some bloat, such by replacing Lucid Dreaming with just straight up more MP generation (ideally, in a way that scales with Spell Speed in addition to [multiplicatively with] Piety) and concentrating our healing abilities kits a little more around versatile and flexibly timed tools, trimming overspecialized or singular/obvious-use-case skills like Liturgy and Panhaima or accessing those functions through other actions (Eukrasia revamped to alter more than just 3 actions).
• To increase the apparent time by which oGCDs can and often should be held for emergencies (now that there is healing intensity to warrant such), such as by increasing random short-telegraph (or near-simultaneous powerful two-target, etc.) damage, giving abilities MP costs (and removing any %MP generation from their use), so that they can better complement an alternative core of healing, rather than needing necessarily to be that core around which all other healing is done just due to those oGCD's far greater efficiency and far lesser flexibility.

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That WoW comparison is just to give it a name. TLDR- If you want to call it that. Our healing kit is overflowing as if the encounter would need that much "power", while the encounter, to put it simply just are "memory game" or a "dance coreography" with almost everything predetermined from safesport to damage and who and how much gets damaged. Example is, when i heal savage with my co-healer, we map out the used healing GCD's and OGCD's so we only GCD when necessary to the last minute of the fight. We casted combined i think 9 GCD for healing (i fat-fingered my buttons .... so i casted a gcd for no reason). With enough training we could get to 5 or 6 for the whole fight. And thats normal and not even the best. I think i saw on the website, whose name shall not be mentioned because evilzzz, told me the best team got trough with 3. So thats that.

So in short encounter need to "mind" healers more and the healer kit needs changes and trimming but also, i know i will get hate for it, nerfs.

I know I'll prob getting some heat for this but here was Anub arak from WoW. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaL3LpKNE94

We got the moves however, there is no constant raid damage until 30 percent left. It's mostly just tank damage in dealing with the adds that buff each other and then the whole leeching swarm with also the dot on 5 random people. Now granted something like this really wouldn't be possible in ffxiv but the other thing is that FFXIV doesn't really try to be unique with its healing checks. For the most part, they are all just aoe spam with either J-waves or Akh morn-esque mechs. The most unique healing check so far is in DSR with Haurchefant and healing him while theire is the constant shockwave while dealing with Charibert's cleaves.