Let's talk about the upcoming DRG rework...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZiraZ

They're not pandering to cheaters and nobody is expecting they do, all they're doing is moving friction from jobs to bosses and people use addons to get it over with because it's too much encounter friction, the exact same thing happened in WoW until Blizzard used their anticheat to properly ban certain plugins, problem is SE has no anticheat and probably never will. So the insane mechanic proliferation continues.

as for the numbers thing, I can barely tell which number is which but I always do keep an eye for that Stardiver and Heaven's Thrust crit because it feels really good to see the animations and get a good hit with it, the first 2 min burst felt like uncorking a champagne bottle and watching your character go apeshit with double weaves and jumps. it absolutely made up for having no life on opener to me and I'm gonna miss it a lot.

---

You don't even know how new dragoon is going to play lol. It will be more all out from the start instead of having to wait a minute for your opener. They are removing spineshatter, adding a new nidhogg ability, giving us access to LotD every 30 seconds instead of every minute, and we still have to press high jump and mirage dive on cooldown.

Instead of waiting a minute to uncork the champagne bottle, you get to do it right away. I don't see why people think it will be any less busy of a job for oGCD. It will be most likely be more or equally busy.

So what exactly are you going to miss? Holding onto GSK with both eyes in the bank until the right moment? I don't get the appeal of this personally. If I can use GSK I want to use it. It's an incredibly cool animation and nastrond is even cooler with stardiver being the coolest next to the new stardiver.

Who cares what cheaters do to begin with anyway, every single thing an addon user accomplishes in this game is totally invalid. All their opinions are also invalid. What is it too, are encounters too simple, or are they too mechanically busy? Depending on who you ask there is a different answer so it's impossible to please everyone. I would say that encounters are becoming more busy because jobs are becoming more streamlined. It seems that you want less streamlined jobs but easier encounters.

Anyway it's fine everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I could just never be anything but stoked for the changes that are going to happen though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keichi

The easier combo would be: Geirs, jump, mirage.
With that are you not risking to enter LotD unwanted and dont need to jump over on skill.

Aside of that:
Whe dont know the CD yet (only, that its duration is shorter) and dont know, if whe need the full combo or only Geirs (in the Clip was all 3 skill used, some says, whe would only need Geirs), but, it looks like, that whe could enter it now more often.

...

Or have data miner allready found things about the new drg?

---

Gier > Jump > Mirage does work and where applicable this is definately the safer approach. But lately we've been finding more windows where theres just enough time to land jump (and therefore another mirage dive) before the boss leaves IF you Jump first. You dont typically want to double weave jump and gier in these instances either. Its more typical to weave lance charge with jump so that its buffed, followed by dragon sight and then gier so that it benefits from more buffs its a subtle but profoundly meaningful micro optimisation for certain encounters. Therefore it's probably better to think of the defualt as jump > gier. Again its not something thats explained in that standard opener for drg that gets thrown around.

As for the other stuff. Thats why ive been saying im concerned and not out right sayung that this change is bad rawrr. I've been playing this game for a long time and this is not the first time theyve made changes to jobs. I am familiar with SE's MO when it comes to changes, therefore I do believe I am justifiably concerned. But thats all it is at the moment, a concern. IF they do allow us to go into life of the dragon every 30s that would be pretty cool. But its more likely they keep us at 60 and 120 which is the direction theyve taken every single other one of their changes. Would I love to be wrong though? Of course, infact im hoping I'm wrong, im just concerned enough to think that I'm not. We'll just have to see.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

You don't even know how new dragoon is going to play lol. It will be more all out from the start instead of having to wait a minute for your opener. They are removing spineshatter, adding a new nidhogg ability, giving us access to LotD every 30 seconds instead of every minute, and we still have to press high jump and mirage dive on cooldown.

Instead of waiting a minute to uncork the champagne bottle, you get to do it right away. I don't see why people think it will be any less busy of a job for oGCD. It will be most likely be more or equally busy.

So what exactly are you going to miss? Holding onto GSK with both eyes in the bank until the right moment? I don't get the appeal of this personally. If I can use GSK I want to use it. It's an incredibly cool animation and nastrond is even cooler with stardiver being the coolest next to the new stardiver.

Who cares what cheaters do to begin with anyway, every single thing an addon user accomplishes in this game is totally invalid. All their opinions are also invalid. What is it too, are encounters too simple, or are they too mechanically busy? Depending on who you ask there is a different answer so it's impossible to please everyone. I would say that encounters are becoming more busy because jobs are becoming more streamlined. It seems that you want less streamlined jobs but easier encounters.

Anyway it's fine everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I could just never be anything but stoked for the changes that are going to happen though.

---

Why do you say we don't know how it's gonna play like but assume LOTD is gonna be accessible every 30 sec?
I mean I wish, but the most safe assumption is they increase it to 60 seconds, we can't even be sure we're even gonna get 2 nastronds we might just get 1.
But OK assuming the best and GSK is now 30 seconds and we have 2 nastronds in the window we still now have a useless mirage dive and a useless high jump which doesn't even do that cool character movement anymore so it's basically as interesting as spineshatter and miragelol you can't even see that animation since it always gets overwritten or hidden, the cool thing about mirage was getting the eye.
And all this at the price of being less flexible in encounters. 1 step forward 2 steps back type deal.

I've played every melee at one time or another and having a full opener is just not the same as a DRGs first 2min/reopener, it's absolutely a psychological thing I would have no idea what its called other than big neuron activation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZiraZ

Why do you say we don't know how it's gonna play like but assume LOTD is gonna be accessible every 30 sec?
I mean I wish, but the most safe assumption is they increase it to 60 seconds, we can't even be sure we're even gonna get 2 nastronds we might just get 1.
But OK assuming the best and GSK is now 30 seconds and we have 2 nastronds in the window we still now have a useless mirage dive and a useless high jump which doesn't even do that cool character movement anymore so it's basically as interesting as spineshatter and miragelol you can't even see that animation since it always gets overwritten or hidden, the cool thing about mirage was getting the eye.
And all this at the price of being less flexible in encounters. 1 step forward 2 steps back type deal.

I've played every melee at one time or another and having a full opener is just not the same as a DRGs first 2min/reopener, it's absolutely a psychological thing I would have no idea what its called other than big neuron activation.

---

????? Mirage dive is one of the coolest animations in the game. I can't believe people play with numbers on hahahaaha. Makes sense why you don't enjoy the game. It's hard to take you seriously after reading this post. High jump is just a jump animation with 400 potency on an oGCD. How is that not cool?

Jaded players are so tiring to engage with but damn lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

So what exactly are you going to miss? Holding onto GSK with both eyes in the bank until the right moment? I don't get the appeal of this personally. If I can use GSK I want to use it. It's an incredibly cool animation and nastrond is even cooler with stardiver being the coolest next to the new stardiver.

Who cares what cheaters do to begin with anyway, every single thing an addon user accomplishes in this game is totally invalid. All their opinions are also invalid. What is it too, are encounters too simple, or are they too mechanically busy? Depending on who you ask there is a different answer so it's impossible to please everyone. I would say that encounters are becoming more busy because jobs are becoming more streamlined. It seems that you want less streamlined jobs but easier encounters.

---

I can't think of any instance where someone woulf have 2 eyes in the pocket before giekskogul comes off cooldown and being stuck with the decision of having to hold gier. I'd go so far as to say if you find yourself in this situation, you screwed up. And badly. Its actually very hard for anyone even moderately familiar with optimisation to do this. Even the standard drg opener/rotation is designed to avoid this senario. Someone might chime in to correct me but honestly I cant think of a legitimate scenario where this would happen.

In regard to the cheaters thing, I mostly agree that we shouldn't pander to them (im pretty sure the chap you're refering to also blatantly says no one expects this) but what I will say sometimes when people use third party things its not always so simple is theyre a cheater so their opinion is invalid. Sometimes the cheating is a symptom of poor or suboptimals game design. Not always! But sometimes. SE are not gods, they are capable of oversight or poor design choice. To categorically invalidate cheaters is probably not the right approach. I'm the type of player that will deal with the game as it was designed even if I think the design is flawed. Other people use mods to address it. Doesnt necessarily make the flaw not a flaw if people use cheats.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

????? Mirage dive is one of the coolest animations in the game. I can't believe people play with numbers on hahahaaha. Makes sense why you don't enjoy the game. It's hard to take you seriously after reading this post. High jump is just a jump animation with 400 potency on an oGCD. How is that not cool?

Jaded players are so tiring to engage with but damn lol

---

m8, I'm not gonna stop pressing buttons and intentionally tanking my dps in encounters with phase enrages that come down to decimals just to see an animation
if you double weave mirage with anything the animation gets half eaten and tall bosses makes the blue dragon impossible to see on the way down, and how is spineshatter dive not cool its an oGCD jump too!
I guarantee you are in the extreme minority here. fluid gameplay is king.
and trust me I enjoy the game a lot, that's why I've done so much high-end content and hard DOH/DOL grinds and that's why I'm here, because I like it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reldhir

I can't think of any instance where someone woulf have 2 eyes in the pocket before giekskogul comes off cooldown and being stuck with the decision of having to hold gier. I'd go so far as to say if you find yourself in this situation, you screwed up. And badly. Its actually very hard for anyone even moderately familiar with optimisation to do this. Even the standard drg opener/rotation is designed to avoid this senario. Someone might chime in to correct me but honestly I cant think of a legitimate scenario where this would happen.

In regard to the cheaters thing, I mostly agree that we shouldn't pander to them (im pretty sure the chap you're refering to also blatantly says no one expects this) but what I will say sometimes when people use third party things its not always so simple is theyre a cheater so their opinion is invalid. Sometimes the cheating is a symptom of poor or suboptimals game design. Not always! But sometimes. SE are not gods, they are capable of oversight or poor design choice. To categorically invalidate cheaters is probably not the right approach. I'm the type of player that will deal with the game as it was designed even if I think the design is flawed. Other people use mods to address it. Doesnt necessarily make the flaw not a flaw if people use cheats.

---

Yeah I don't really know about optimal play at all and had been using mirage dive before gsk in my opener causing drift. I read about how dragoon works optimally now and it's not really that complicated at all. I just don't see why you'd prefer to delay LotD as is now, instead of having it pop up for every single GSK usage like it will be in dawntrail. For dungeons, it will just be more fun more frequently because we will get two uses of stardiver and the followup in most aoe pulls. Instead of 3 nastrond and 1 stardiver, we will get 4 nastrond and 2 stardiver combos in two separate LotD per AoE pull. Same with boss fights, just more fun more frequently. What is the nuance in delaying LotD anyway lol. You are literally just weaving high jump and mirage dive after the first gsk. Pressing one button before the other two isn't anything complicated elegant or nuanced. It just works, like you said.

You want a complicated melee job? Try playing ninja. Dragoon is simple and it's only going to get more enjoyable in dawntrail.

If someone is cheating to compensate for what they feel is poor or suboptimal game design, they're still cheating and don't deserve to criticize the game since they are out of touch with the reality of it. Love to say it but cheaters don't matter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZiraZ

m8, I'm not gonna stop pressing buttons and intentionally tanking my dps in encounters with phase enrages that come down to decimals just to see an animation
if you double weave mirage with anything the animation gets half eaten and tall bosses makes the blue dragon impossible to see on the way down, and how is spineshatter dive not cool its an oGCD jump too!
I guarantee you are in the extreme minority here. fluid gameplay is king.
and trust me I enjoy the game a lot, that's why I've done so much high-end content and hard DOH/DOL grinds and that's why I'm here, because I like it.

---

????? I just double weaved and the animation played out fully. Maybe you're just blinded by damage numbers and names lol idunno. Maybe you're just making stuff up. Either way I don't get your point. It's an oGCD damage ability. It doesn't have any interesting interactions even if you consider the eye granted. It all happens automatically if you press your buttons in the right order regardless so what do you think you're doing that is special?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

Yeah I don't really know about optimal play at all and had been using mirage dive before gsk in my opener causing drift.

---

Oh lord here we go again. Silly me for thinking we came to an understanding. You literally say you don't know how drg optimisation works. I give you examples and you ignore them, then you go to god knows where to find someone who will corroborate your bias uninformed willfulling ignorant understanding of the job. Easy you say... if its easy then its right up your alley and yet you cant even accurately articulate how it works. You just make sweeping assumptions about how you THINK drg is played and when you're proven wrong you go oh im just a casual i like big flashy things, who cares about numbers who cares about optimisation... like really? Are you even playing the game at this point? If all you care about is the look of the job then fine, but stay out of stuff you so clearly dont and refuse to understand.

I'm dealing with a troll arnt I? You cant be this willfully ignorant and be serious at the same time. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but at this point if anyones opinion should be invalidated, its yours. (As far as drg optimisation goes)

LAWD.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZiraZ

You don't need to use plugins to know you're doing well on current DRG, you don't need plugins telling you when you successfully found a way to sneak that mirage dive before the boss phased away without losing dps elsewhere, that was one of the beauties of Eyes, direct visual pat in the back telling you did good. Ironically after the eye removal it will all come down to what the numbers say.

---

The person you're replying to thinks that third party tools are required to hit positionals, which is quite curious.


I'm not sure if the intricacies that we've been trying to explain for several pages now are getting through though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reldhir

Oh lord here we go again. Silly me for thinking we came to an understanding. You literally say you don't know how drg optimisation works. I give you examples and you ignore them, then you go to god knows where to find someone who will corroborate your bias uninformed willfulling ignorant understanding of the job. Easy you say... if its easy then its right up your alley and yet you cant even accurately articulate how it works. You just make sweeping assumptions about how you THINK drg is played and when you're proven wrong you go oh im just a casual i like big flashy things, who cares about numbers who cares about optimisation... like really? Are you even playing the game at this point? If all you care about is the look of the job then fine, but stay out of stuff you so clearly dont and refuse to understand.

I'm dealing with a troll arnt I? You cant be this willfully ignorant and be serious at the same time. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but at this point if anyones opinion should be invalidated, its yours. (As far as drg optimisation goes)

LAWD.

---

https://www.thebalanceffxiv.com/jobs...-of-the-dragon

You're acting like this is something special lol. Anyway it's an interesting theory that you're doing something elegant or nuanced by delaying LotD with a rotation order.

At any rate, change is happening and it is for the best. Rotations will be more enjoyable, our damage output will be more consistent while still having burst windows that are just as busy as always. I think the only reason you are criticizing it is because you're used to the way you do things and don't want to experience change.

Explain to me what is hard or complicated about using GSK before high jump and mirage dive so that LotD is delayed by 30 seconds and lines up with all 60 second and 120 second cooldown windows, please. I'd love to hear why you think that's so nuanced and complex. All it means to me is that I don't get to be in LotD for my opener, while in dawntrail I will be in LotD every 30 seconds starting from my opener. The job will feel cooler and more consistently powerful, just like black mage but melee as the other poster said.