The Reasoning behind The Sundering? (*6.0 Endwalker Spoilers*)

Hydaelyn and the songstress was never mentioned per se in the game except for the last story quest and one of the circle of knowing saying we should look towards her... (and when I say msq I mean final msq which was about level 30 ish maybe higher if memory serves me correctly and had nothing to do with the quests for the up coming calamity which where GC quests at that time)

At the time the most we had was some type of Owl and a feather to represent her in game.

Edit: that was also the cutscene in which we found out our Companion was from Ala Mhigo and we saw Gaius the first time and called him Vader..

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Originally Posted by Kordarion

Does that mean that Hydaelyn technically was a thing in 1.0, just that no one at the time knew the songstress was her? If so that means that she can't have been a non-factor and would have given the 1.0 Warriors Of Light the echo.

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All 1.0 information that hasn't been specifically brought up by 2.0 or onwards is basically in a perpetual state of quantum uncertainty. This information could either be true, different to how we've seen it, true but irrelevant, or completely false, but we can never know until the current writers refer to it either in or out of game.

I have absolutely no idea which one the songstress is.

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Originally Posted by Rannie

Hydaelyn and the songstress was never mentioned per se in the game except for the last story quest and one of the circle of knowing saying we should look towards her... (and when I say msq I mean final msq which was about level 30 ish maybe higher if memory serves me correctly and had nothing to do with the quests for the up coming calamity which where GC quests at that time)

At the time the most we had was some type of Owl and a feather to represent her in game.

Edit: that was also the cutscene in which we found out our Companion was from Ala Mhigo and we saw Gaius the first time and called him Vader..

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And could I ask what the 'owl' situation was? I didn't play 1.0, and this is the first I've heard of it, but a friend of mine has a mythical owl as a background detail for a character and I think she'd get a kick out of it.

No idea it really only showed up during Future's Prefect/perfect. After that was when Yoshi P took over and it wasn't touched upon ever again because of Dalamud.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

If the series of events has to occur in a certain way, then only those events would be predestined, nothing else. Example, the Final Days in Thavnair must always occur. However, it does not matter who falls to despair for this, just that the Final Days occur. That means in any infinite number of variations of random villagers who transform, it won't matter who actually does, the event itself is what sets in motion that which leads to the WoL going to the First and then to Elpis. Matsya could have transformed and been killed by us, and it wouldn't have changed that we would have ended up going to the First and Elpis.

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It's an interesting thought, but don't worry, it gets worse. If a specific event is predestined, then any requirements for or direct outcomes from that event are also predestined. If we say that G'raha was always destined to go back in time and alter the timeline, then Azem was always destined to survive. So now we have a situation with the Eighth Umbral Calamity timeline in which Azem was always destined to survive, but does not.

The main point is that friends don't let friends write about time travel. The secondary point is that Venat either didn't start out as an omniscient being with knowledge of the entire timeline the first time around, or the entire timeline is predestined and we're all just puppets. Whichever one you choose, you can safely conclude that the line of argument that Veloran is currently using about how Venat was responsible for safeguarding humanity from every adverse event in the history of the universe is rubbish.

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Originally Posted by Veloran

As I said before…

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Yes, deposing him is a great idea, and surely didn’t set in motion a calamity.

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Originally Posted by Veloran

Did you miss the part…

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I must’ve not heard him over Bahamut casting Megaflare and nearly burning the Twelveswood to the ground.

My point is that even with the revelation from the First, it was Graha who ultimately warned us of Black Rose. The fact is that calamities are not easily seen coming, especially by those who don’t have the minute details of the events. It’s foolhardy to believe that a failed calamity would be easy to spot millennia after the fact.

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Originally Posted by Veloran

Hydaelyn never told anybody…

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Then why did she summon the star shower and reach out to WoL before it occurred? Why do so if that’s destined to fail, and is supposed to if we go by your theory.

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Originally Posted by Veloran

Black Rose…

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The only way it ends up in a history book is if one is writing about our journey on the First, and even then only because a time traveler came to tell us this stuff is important.

As it stands we cannot discern if the events where WoL intervened would have become calamities or not, and using elemental aspects to make that judgement is prone to issues. Whether it’s astral aspected aether fueling Bahamut, Earth Aether causing the ground under the Crystal Tower to crack, or a chemical weapon no one had knowledge of causing worldwide devastation, calamities were incredibly difficult to see coming. By design.

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Originally Posted by Veloran

As I said…

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Minfilia only lost her body on the trip to the First, and she and Krile both showed the same signs of Venats possession. Krile herself even references this, saying she’s not as good at it as Minfilia.

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Originally Posted by Veloran

It didn't backfire at all...

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No it very clearly backfired. The Flood was only stopped by Minfilia. If not for her the First would have been lost like the 13th.

https://i.imgur.com/vFcTyMk.jpg

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Originally Posted by Veloran

She knew…

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So she’s not only able to manipulate thousands to do exactly what she wants them to, but she’s an expert on aeronautics using aether based propulsion systems. Hell why even bother having the Sharlayans build the Ragnarök, or having the Loporrits erase arch and develop space travel, she knew it all from the start!

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Originally Posted by Veloran

That doesn't…

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Yes, after we killed Lahabrea and foiled two of the Ascians attempts to cause a Light based calamity, he decided killing us was a necessity to prevent any further issues. Remember, Mitron and Loghrif were the ones holding back the Light on the First, why would they bother doing that if when they are manipulating events to push things further towards the Light? Because it’s a matter of timing.

https://i.imgur.com/jcgLJaB.jpg

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Originally Posted by Veloran

There's a difference…

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I think you’re being unfair in your description of events.

Apparently we may be getting answers to this soon. From the Premium section of today's Mahjong livestream, Yoshi-P mentioned multiple things coming. One of which was interviews starting soon explaining interpretations of the story of Endwalker. Starting Tuesday of next week there'll be a lot of them.

Ok, hold on. Did I get this premise right...
Warrior of Light, adventurer and very much not an academic historian, sat at the table with 3 people and gave a pub retelling of his/her adventures and maybe a very light retelling of history. Imagine trying to retell the history of your nation over tea, what do you even know? This premise that "Because Venat had biscuits and earl grey with a time traveler really good at swinging a sword, she ought to know the whole timeline from there to then down to every minute event."
"Oh yeah Venat, there is going to this moment when uuuh people will get really good at magic. Be vigilant, at one point they just start destroying everything. Got that?"

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Originally Posted by Ayche

Ok, hold on. Did I get this premise right...
Warrior of Light, adventurer and very much not an academic historian, sat at the table with 3 people and gave a pub retelling of his/her adventures and maybe a very light retelling of history. Imagine trying to retell the history of your nation over tea, what do you even know? This premise that "Because Venat had biscuits and earl grey with a time traveler really good at swinging a sword, she ought to know the whole timeline from there to then down to every minute event."
"Oh yeah Venat, there is going to this moment when uuuh people will get really good at magic. Be vigilant, at one point they just start destroying everything. Got that?"

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That’s not even including all the optional info that various WoL may or may not have had by Endwalker. Hope you did the Eden story and Role quests otherwise the world is doomed!

Except for the part where NPC dialogue clearly indicates the Warrior of Light to be extremely well-learned at this stage of the story. They are shown to possess an impressive knowledge of subjects ranging from world history all the way over to aetherology.

Remember that we learned as a fact later in that very expansion that even the things we told her weren't anywhere near the whole plan. Basically the only thing we know about Hydaelyn's whole internal plan is that she wasn't taking our word as gospel.