New summoner is unacceptable

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shougun

I feel like a lot of people's opinons will improve at level 86, Astral flow which is normally reserved for Baha-men-ut and Phoenix now gets an ex-egi variant. Which each come with unique effects and mechanics.

Titan gets oGCD town, Ifrit dash slam jam, and Garuda with lil-kansas.

https://i.imgur.com/yj8DBKn.png

https://i.imgur.com/dS8SahQ.png

https://i.imgur.com/veg7X3h.png

I really feel that's when people are going to not think Summoner is way too simplistic / only press one key (as the job moves pretty quickly before 86 but now you'll have 3-4 more new abilities each with their own gimmick, level 86 gameplay wise I look forward to the most). Maybe still not a lot of different keys on your keyboard (but it will be a bunch of different spells), though I genuinely think that's a neat part of summoner being so condensed now (I don't always need to have three full bars lol, having some jobs be tightly knit into morphing keys is nice).

---

They should be learned at level 78, not 86. 86 is way too late to break up the monotony of Ruin spamming.

I’ll be frank, did we really need yet another job like this? in SB Red and somewhat DRG was the “starter job” or the ease of use jobs

SHB came and MCH reworked to be trivial and DNC along with RDM which didn’t get much to revitalize the job and all 3 became the “jobs for people that don’t like pressure”

EW, with MNK atrocious changes and SMN getting utterly shaved aswell as all 3 jobs from before hardly changing what so ever just increases the number to 5.

Which brings up lots of points, job identity waning, homogenization, the futility of accessibility ect ect. Honestly what more jobs must we break for this? Does SAM need a rework because the dot is hard to upkeep? Does NIN need one to do away with murdras because 3 is confusing? Does BRD need one despite being dangerously close to being as dumb as DNC because dots are hard? Does BLM need one because leylines is stupid and we want them to follow the BLM? It never ends and it’ll never please anyone. Those casuals that celebrate these half baked ideas have more options than ever and will jump ship to anything while the mains can only wallow in its mediocrity of what it used to be. This needs to stop

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jirah

I’ll be frank, did we really need yet another job like this? in SB Red and somewhat DRG was the “starter job” or the ease of use jobs

SHB came and MCH reworked to be trivial and DNC along with RDM which didn’t get much to revitalize the job and all 3 became the “jobs for people that don’t like pressure”

EW, with MNK atrocious changes and SMN getting utterly shaved aswell as all 3 jobs from before hardly changing what so ever just increases the number to 5.

Which brings up lots of points, job identity waning, homogenization, the futility of accessibility ect ect. Honestly what more jobs must we break for this? Does SAM need a rework because the dot is hard to upkeep? Does NIN need one to do away with murdras because 3 is confusing? Does BRD need one despite being dangerously close to being as dumb as DNC because dots are hard? Does BLM need one because leylines is stupid and we want them to follow the BLM? It never ends and it’ll never please anyone. Those casuals that celebrate these half baked ideas have more options than ever and will jump ship to anything while the mains can only wallow in its mediocrity of what it used to be. This needs to stop

---

Lol it has nothing to do with casual.

The jobs all but theif/nin has their Real final fantasy identity now.

As for jobs yes we need more so we have options of our favorite types. + with bs job to weapon lock system we need even more jobs to get our favorite weapons

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jirah

I’ll be frank, did we really need yet another job like this? in SB Red and somewhat DRG was the “starter job” or the ease of use jobs

SHB came and MCH reworked to be trivial and DNC along with RDM which didn’t get much to revitalize the job and all 3 became the “jobs for people that don’t like pressure”

EW, with MNK atrocious changes and SMN getting utterly shaved aswell as all 3 jobs from before hardly changing what so ever just increases the number to 5.

---

From your character it does not look like you have even played summoner so I am not understanding why you would even have an opinion on this or why I would even care about your opinion.
Summoner was changed because it was in a bad state, it had button bloat, wonky issues with pet performance and honestly did not function well. Summoner even had a small rework in Shadowbringers that most of you seem to forget even happened as the class was not performing well.
As far as monk is concerned most people are happy with the changes in Endwalker. These changes did not happen because monk was too complex, this happened because monk was poorly designed and relied on server ticks to properly perform the classes opener.(Which I am going to assume you probably did not know but this has been a problem since ARR).
Machinest was reworked in Shadowbringers to fit the FF role Edgard from FF6 had and because an RNG proc based 123 combo is not very fun gameplay. I am actually surprised in this expansion they did not address the issues with heat blast as they did with the other classes.
A lot of class changes that have been made through out this games life, are not designed to dumb the class down it is because the classes were not in a good state.
I am sorry they have not fixed your bard, I know your class has been in a terrible state for several expansions. One day it will get the proper rework it deserves.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jirah

Which brings up lots of points, job identity waning, homogenization, the futility of accessibility ect ect. . Those casuals that celebrate these half baked ideas have more options than ever and will jump ship to anything while the mains can only wallow in its mediocrity of what it used to be. This needs to stop

---

Shaving off buttons does homogenize a class. In no way is summoner similar to BLM or RDM is it still unique.
A majority of players do not flock to what is easy they pick what they want to play and spend time learning it.
If you want to see homogenization look at your tanks and healers where a large portion of there abilities are copied and pasted amongst each other. Sadly I believe the tanks and the healers need a bit of a change as many of them feel to similar outside of the classes gimmick.
I would recommend leveling all the classes to max before giving an opinion on how homogenized or how poorly designed these reworks may be for classes you have not played and obviously have not experiences prior to reworks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FusiaRain

Lol it has nothing to do with casual.

The jobs all but theif/nin has their Real final fantasy identity now.

As for jobs yes we need more so we have options of our favorite types. + with bs job to weapon lock system we need even more jobs to get our favorite weapons

---

You mean the visuals? The most shallow part of the gameplay? The one thing casuals get any sort of thrill over? Which isn’t a insult it’s just what they desire. The only true summons you have is only bahamut and Phoenix, ya know the ones from SHB. Let’s be real, and I’ll make this very clear for people regurgitating this incredibly tired argument on “real final fantasy identity” or “true summoner” low hanging fruit

Any job, should NOT follow any design from a 4 party system into a MMO! Works with specific MMOs like ff11 reliance on party but ff14 is designed for a solo experience and party experience both. If they did every job would be very very shallow and toothless. I’m FF games all BLM did was spam it’s strongest spells, all WHM did was watch ideally and cast Curaja until your mana ran out, all any melee did was spam attacks varying on the game. This is not a path to follow and I’m sick of this argument from the camp. Their is no reason for a job to be this simple to make DNC and RDM look like standouts

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

From your character it does not look like you have even played summoner so I am not understanding why you would even have an opinion on this or why I would even care about your opinion.
.

---

Yet tons of of people debate on MNK, BRD, SMN, MCH and don’t even know half of their kit or even bother to level it, yet they think what’s best for a job they don’t main

I have a alt smartass, don’t try to devalue my opinion by digging into my main’s roles

Summoner never felt like it fit the name for me as a new player at the end of stormblood until the very end when I got bahamut. Dots aint got a thing to do with summoning to me, glad they are gone ^^
Feels a lot more like a summoner now which I am glad about, just fix some egi jank!

It's definitely time for some to step away from the keyboard and relax while we are all waiting on these login queues. Interacting with the affliction warlock crowd in anything but a calm manner is not an effective way to get the point across. For those who do not understand the comparison, Warlock is a WoW class that deals with summoning demons and inflicting poisons. It formed the basis for original SMN but for the past 8 years many believed it was a bad fit for such a longstanding and core class to the FF series.

Now that the class resembles a Final Fantasy Summoner, those who either do not have experience with other Final Fantasy titles or who for whatever reason preferred being a poison mage as opposed to a mage that calls down literal gods are upset. There are also those who mistakenly believe that there should be "simple and complex" classes when in reality what we need is good job design. Something Summoner has been lacking for the past 8 years until recently, now that the rework has occurred. When these players shout down others and demean their abilities or competency it is no wonder why they are largely unsuccessful in wooing over people to their side.

The fact that some of those who still cling to the failed state of old Summoner are still here contributing to such a negative mood speaks volumes about their stance and how contrasting it is with that of the majority of the playerbase, which so far seems to be doing quite fine. I choose to simply speak my mind about things and set the record straight for those who still have an open mind-I know full well that there is no convincing an Affliction Warlock that Summoner is better off as a Summoner with decent controls, with "complexity" being a choice for the player regarding what level of difficulty they wish to pursue in battle content instead of poorly designed controls that are forced upon any who play the class.

I have literally never played WoW. I still prefer old SMN just because it was more complex. New SMN is okay, but I suspect I may find another main just due to how simple and boring the job has become.

Did the whole MSQ on SMN and it does feel very much like an unfinished fisher-price job. There should've at least been a new caster to bring back the old DoT mage. Old SMN could've gone away with some of the weird optimization but shouldn't have been entirely deleted.