Why are standards seen as a crime in this game?

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Originally Posted by Ilan

Its their sub is right but its also the sub of the other people where they are going into dungeons, trials or raids. You don't want to tell us now that one sub is more important than the other 3-23 subs, right?

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I'm simply saying it's not worth caring how good/bad they are playing. Because it doesn't matter if it's not extreme, savage or ultimate.

Yes, they should try and consider contributing as much to the fight as everyone else. But if they don't, it's really not a big deal (if it was the majority of people wouldn't clear all of the normal content).

The game is designed so that all players can contribute equally, or so that some can perform worse while others make up for their shortcomings and are the MVPs of the fight.

Those other 23 subs decided to queue with random players of varying skill levels. If they want to play with just high-skill players, they should setup a Party Finder or a private FC run and state such.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

If they want to play with just high-skill players, they should setup a Party Finder or a private FC run and state such.

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Never going to happen because it takes longer to set that up than queue (unless things REALLY go south). It would be interesting to see what it would be like if this was the norm, however. Imagine if the only people queuing for non-extreme/savage/ultimate were MNKs doing 900 dps at ilvl 390, tanks who pulled 1 group at a time and stand in every AoE and healers who are watching anime on another screen. Finally, expert dungeons would live up to their name.

People think that because they can queue for something, they should be able to clear it without having to put in appropriate effort.

"Parsing is bad because you shouldnt be allowed to kick someone for not being good" is an argument that gets legitimately used, despite parsing being the ONLY tool you have available past a certain point to know why a group isnt able to clear content. Congrats, you dont die to mechanics, but you do 800 dps. You arent good, and if you arent willing to get better, nobody should have any sympathy for you or be expected to carry you.


Its the same mentality that leads to people being at max level for a year and having un-melded ilvl 300 gear thinking they should be able to get invites to your party finder groups because they've "earned" it.


People who are bad and refuse to put in the time or effort to get better think others should be required to drag their corpses by the feet to the finish line.


Even the minimum amount of personal responsibility we would enforce on the rest of the playerbase in Everquest or WoW get denounced as evil and "toxic" in this game.

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Originally Posted by galbsadi

I wouldn't jump too quickly into thinking that's a fix. Ex:My wife has her struggles quite a bit with learning rotations, etc....but hall of the novice? She got through that with flying colors. Further, even in games where this or similar was required, you'd still see plenty of players who passed the 'requirement' but weren't able to properly play their classes (or just didn't care to). (Ex: WoW)

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I remember the first time I did the Hall of the novice...

Did the DPS mode on ninja, I'm not sure if it was heavensward or before but I don't think it matters that much...
The NPC's got mad at me for putting mutilate on the other mobs...
But that was the most efficient way, let the dots work on them while I finish off the others...

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I would prefer that those theorycrafters dealt with more than end-game optimization. What good does the end-game rotation do you at level 43 or level 59, especially since most of those rotations are built on max-level actions and abilities?

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The guide to most pre-60/70 rotations is: Read your tooltips, see what does the most damage, do that until the thing dies. If ae pulling, press the one ae you might have until things die. Theres a few classes where you have to remember what your mana regen is, or alternate a few steps here and there (I mean, you really dont have to do that one).

Theres not a lot of theorycrafting low level rotations because you really dont have rotations, and its not worth the time to write one or to read one dedicated to a level or set of levels you can get through in 10 minutes.


https://i.gyazo.com/f08c456ff7a08081...454e9ed107.png

You'd spend more time looking for and reading a guide for any set of pre-70 content than it would take to just hit 70.

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You can't just magically do another rotation and get the same result, that is practically impossible. The rotations provided by the people who are actually going through countless hours of calculating and testing are simply the most optimal and best performing rotations.

Edit: Claiming that you can do any rotation and get a similar result compared to the optimal rotations people find through testing and countless hourts of effort, is just insulting to those of us that are actually doing that and constantly trying to improve the best rotation ever so slightly.

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Ehhhhhhh... I take some issue with that one. I was the crazy guy shouting at clouds about how the "accepted best" rotations in a few eras in WoW werent correct, and how tank gearing in EQ was more than HP is best, and I ended up proving I was right.

That DID take absurd amounts of testing on my part though. But sometimes the accepted community standard CAN be wrong. (When you pull 12k on a fight where nobody else has managed more than 10.5k, most of the time, your parser messed up, but SOMETIMES, it means you figured something out nobody else has)

Wow, just wow!

How a person plays their game is up to THEM, not you. And in ff14 players are forced to run dungeons to progress the main story line, which I personally don't enjoy. I, my wife, and our sons do not like raids or dungeons and would not do them if we had the choice in this game. I expect many others don't either. I love the tank classes because of thier survivability while soloing and I play it the way I want. So now I get to the first dungeon and people want ME to lead. What? First, I don't want to, and second, I may not know all the skills of the class for holding agro ect. However, I rock as a solo class!

Because of this, you or others, should not complain about how I play MY character or class. You have NO right, because as you have said others have stated, "you don't pay my sub"! You have no right by getting irritated at the players here. You should be complaining to the creators for forcing players to do things that has the potential of irritating others in the game.

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Originally Posted by Mijorious

Wow, just wow!

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Gotta admit you almost had me for a second. My favorite part was about not knowing 'all' the skills for holding agro.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

I would prefer that those theorycrafters dealt with more than end-game optimization. What good does the end-game rotation do you at level 43 or level 59, especially since most of those rotations are built on max-level actions and abilities?

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No theorycrafter is going to devote time into optimizing classes at varying levels during the leveling process. There really isn't a reason to spend time writing detailed guides for rotations for the leveling process because most of it is pretty self-explanatory if people would actually read the tooltips on their skills. That is way more work than it needs to be, and no content pre-max level requires you to need a guide to play optimally while leveling.

People already do have standards, and sure, every once in a while you run into somebody who's not very good but there's a big difference between being constructive and being a doof about it. I think it's great that the staff is really cautious about people being toxic. Toxicity kills MMOs. The game is not made nor catered for the small number of obsessive raiders, it's made for and depends on the continuity of the average joe.

Without strict enforcement, parsers would be hassling new people in leveling DF and all other sorts of ridiculous stuff.

Also keep in mind that some of the people who play here have disabilities and mobility issues, and they get enough grief irl. Having a slow/bad session in a video game isn't that big of a deal.

If you want guaranteed competency (or at least consistency), roll with friends.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Then don’t queue directly into EX primals in Duty Finder if you don’t want to listen to instructions. :)

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Gosh darn it i get excited when people start explaining mechanics. xD