[dev1206] Class Reforms & Action Lists

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Are you Dumb or do you not realize that the point of these forums is to give feed back on the Game?

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Key word. The game. Which means you'd have to play it first to really know it.

All this so far is speculation, and crying about speculation. People are crying about the limit of 25 total abilities while in some MMOs, especially FFXI, you were lucky to have 15 at that level, especially if you are a melee.

People are just too adjusted to having exhaustive spell libraries and cry that their list of spells they never actually used is now gone.
At least one of you will be eating crow on patch day, provided any of you last that long.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

also if you where playing lancer as anything other then DD then you where doing it wrong, which would explain why you hate parties so much.

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Umm. If this was directed at me, I feel obliged to mention that I don't hate party play. I simply prefer solo and duo. It's very easy to play almost exclusively solo or duo in this game currently, if party searching has been fixed I don't know about it, so nobody finds me for their parties. I don't go actively looking for a party with shouts or such, like I said I prefer solo and duo.

Naturally, the needs of a class are different in party play and I wouldn't imagine using the same abilities for solo and party. I guess that's where the problem is. LNC class identity might be intact for party play after these changes (I wouldn't know, I don't have enough experience of it), but for efficient solo it doesn't appear to be for the moment.

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Originally Posted by Exni

Agreed. I'm not a fan of a good amount of these changes, so I, like the Dev's, would be interested in hearing the potential issues that alot of these changes may cause.. BEFORE they are implemented. It is somewhat exciting to be able to try out some new abilites, but we seemed to LOSE a helluva lot more than we gained.. I'da been happier with them just incorporating some of the new abilities/combos while keeping the majority of abilites we already had, there was no need to wash out everyones action list completely, and then turn around and give us fewer options to customize our playstyles.. We'll see how this all goes in a month I suppose..

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Half the Ablilties on Each class are barely if not at all used anyhow.. Wiping out the ones that are useless and no one uses ..doesnt effect how we play... ( except for the changes they are making with the abalities they know for certain we do use.. like for an Example:

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Consumes TP to increase attack power and damage sustained, up to a maximum of three stacks. Cannot be used simultaneously with LNC Ability 3.

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LNC Abl#2

This hear is an Example of Ferocity: Ferocity Only Increased your attack power once at the cost of HP. Now its been Reversed with added effect.

Consumes TP
Damage Sustained
Stack up to three times

What this basically means that this is an "Enhanced Ferocity". as so is a lot of the Abilities on that list, they are Enhanced and slightly tweaked.

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Sacrifices HP to increase damage of next attack.

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LNC. Abl. 5

Edit: This is the LNC Exclusive one, the other one Ferocity #1 is still in the game and will be Crossed classed. The Ferocity #2 is LNC only with Enhanced Capabilities. Keep Ferocity #1... for Cross class.. and Giving Ferocity #2 LNC some Definition to the Class itself.

Seems like Ability 2 can be stacked with Ability 5 ( Doesn't say "cannot be used Simultaneously")

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Originally Posted by Mihana

I'm really hoping that list is unfinished, because from the current view of it I think they ditched water magic from the listing. There's supposed to be six elements yet water isn't listed. Also is it me or does it look like they're taking the Conjurer elemental spells and dividing them up between Conjurer and Thaumaturge now? I'm going to wait until we really have more information before I start fussing but so far I really don't like what I see at this point...

EDIT: If they're going to ditch any elements I'd prefer the axe Ice. Fire, Water, Wind, and Earth have been the staple elements in most games for a very long time. Add in Thunder and that's what most have. Ice is basically just water but frozen.

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Do not see this happening. Throughout SEs history Ice based spells have always been 1 of if not the most potent spells in the game. In FFXI Blizzard and Freeze spells are the ones Blms make sure they gear well for.

I'm interested to see how this all turns out. I trust they have tested and know what direction each job/class is going.

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Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

....says who?

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The fact that this game isn't going through an overhaul and pretty much in development and therefore changes can't ever be made once fina-..oh.

You something, i had a really tough time accepting a bard/archer combination. But giving it some thought... it's exactly the same concept as Corsair was. Buffs with ranged damage capabilities LOL it just struck me

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Lancer was a Tactical fighter with a steady defense. They are now all out DD with no Tactics or Defense

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o,O what world are you in?

Lancer did not have a steady defense. What defense it had was literally borrowed from other jobs. What it had was sustainability due to surges, and it looks like it hasn't lost that entirely. And as far as borrowing defenses, it's STILL THERE. It might have gotten nerfed a bit, but honestly, LNC had it coming.

And as far as being a tactical job. Due to combos, ALL jobs have gotten far more about tactics then Lancer ever was. It's no longer 'Buff, Buff, Doomspike II, get TP, repeat.' Now you have to plan your attacks, figure your combos for stuns or sustained/spike damage. As a dragoon you got to figure the timing on your jumps, offensive and defensively. When to draw in fleeing opponents, and so forth.

There is a LOT of depth here to be had, but we'll have to play it to find out how much actually pans out.

Seriously, the negative nancys in this thread need to chill out.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

YOu have describe the Party roles of every Class. Solo Combat is what classes are for and they operate completely differently. You cannot honestly believe that Conjurers Soloed by "Mostly Healing"

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You're oversimplifying what these class revisions have to offer. They are far more complex and tactical classes then you're making them out to be.

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Gladiators specialized in Reactive WSs and Shutting down enemy abilities. They now have No offensive Skills

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They had paltry offensive skills to begin with. With the guard changes that have already taken place Phalanx was a shadow of what it once was before, and it was the only Reactive WS they had. All of their offensive ability was in their weapons skills which all basically did the same damage at lower levels. Other offensive ability came from what they could cross class. They still have offensive weapon skills in the adjusted list, and using combos increases their damage. And they now have MORE options in regards to reactive abilities. They also still have shield bash and can stun in place of Riot Blade pacification effect. The ability to shut down enemy abilities is still there as well.

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Lancer was a Tactical fighter with a steady defense. They are now all out DD with no Tactics or Defense

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Lancer is still tactical and strategic. You can increase your TP through the use of an ability, increase the damage of your next attack. And reduce the recast of your next weaponskill. Your auto attacks can steal HP. You lose out on an attack speed ability, being able to transfer enmity, and you're obvious weaker in defense. But you can manipulate your TP and weapon skill recasts in order to initiate combos more frequently, and take advantage of the effects offered by those combos. In place of Diversion you can absorb HP from an attack directly, which can be boosted by depleting the effects of one of your other abilities.

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Conjurer was an Run and Gun nuker who specialized in mitigating Damage and elemental magic. They now heal.

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CON still specializes in mitigating damage by healing, because healing is and always has been a method of doing so. They can also generate a barrier around a target that prevents damage. Similar to Stoneskin. Their damage mitigation potential is still intact. They also have a version of protect. They have their own nukes that can inflict additional effects. They also have an ability that can increase their magic attack at the cost of healing ability. So now CON is a well-balanced class that can switch from support to nuking when the situation arises. Wow. That's pretty much what they were before.

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Thaumaturge specialized in Enfeeballing and Nuking to take down enemies and absord spells to boost their skills. Now they nuke.

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This one is true. They are a more destructive class now. And all of their nukes have additional effects. They can still enfeeble through their damage spells, although the enfeebles aren't the same as before. They no longer have absorbs. or Sac. Or dedicated enfeeble spells. But if BLM can solo in FFXI, this new class should be able to do it as well. I have no comment on whether changing this class so drastically is a good thing or a bad thing. Maybe to those who already leveled it and like the class as it is, it's a bad thing. Outside of that, I can't see the issue until we actually see the class in action.

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Archer was a heavy ranged DD that specialized in precision and control. Now they are an abomination that dont even get to chose the rate at which they expend there arrows.. Infinite quiver is just a step away.

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Archer's abilities before focused on either reducing enmity, increasing accuracy, or increasing damage with a few utility abilities thrown in. The new changes do the EXACT SAME THING FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. The only difference is they get an auto attack. Which as an ability means it can be turned on or off. Even if you were a monkey, you should be able to control what you're doing just fine.

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MRD and PUG are the only two classes that have escaped most unscathed. Except now PUG has the useless ability to attach fire to its melee attacks. A skill that will do nothing considering very few enemies in this game are weak to fire and elemental dmg does nothing to increase potency without elemental weakness.

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You won't know how useless or non-useless the elemental attacks are until we see them in action.

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Also, did anyone notice Water doesn't exist anymore?

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This is true. Classes don't have access to a water nuking spell. Yet.

This list is getting me pretty excited. It seems like they spent a good deal of time on it and it shows. The game is going to get a lot more tactical.