Goodbye strength tanks. Let us never be forgotten.

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Originally Posted by TheUltimateSeph

I'm pretty sure I saw somewhere that the amount of damage tanks will be able to do after the change will be lower. Not sure if it was confirmed or not but either way it's not anymore accurate to say they aren't nerfing it either. And it wasn't just bad dps, Warrior dps was encroaching on the realm of good dps players. I believe somewhere I saw someone post that a warrior in void ark did like 1,100 dps. That is indeed encroaching on the realm of good dps. Hell that's surpassing decent average dps. If that's not broken idk what is.

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Take into account that for a WAR to do that, they must treat RI and Vengeance as offensive cooldowns, and use them as soon as they're up, in other words, when they're not tanking anything. A good WAR will very seldom stack their two strongest defensive cooldowns when tanking anything worth a damn. 1.1k DPS is nowhere near the realm of good DPS, and you got a lot of work to do on your Dragoon rotation if a WAR of equal item level is parsing numbers similar to yours. It's not "broken" at all that a player who spends time playing their best outperforms one who is slacking.

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Originally Posted by Odett

Take into account that for a WAR to do that, they must treat RI and Vengeance as offensive cooldowns, and use them as soon as they're up, in other words, when they're not tanking anything. A good WAR will very seldom stack their two strongest defensive cooldowns when tanking anything worth a damn. 1.1k DPS is nowhere near the realm of good DPS, and you got a lot of work to do on your Dragoon rotation if a WAR of equal item level is parsing numbers similar to yours. It's not "broken" at all that a player who spends time playing their best outperforms one who is slacking.

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Never said that surpassed my own dps. Stop jumping to conclusions.

Just out of curiosity what would you consider to be in the realm of good dps? Cause the opinions I've heard on the matter vary

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Originally Posted by TheUltimateSeph

Never said that surpassed my own dps. Stop jumping to conclusions.

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Regardless, you're saying that above ilv 195 (which is what a WAR would have to be at in order to parse 1.1k in VA, most likely 200) 1.1k DPS makes you a "good DPS", which is again, false. 1.1k dps at that item level is more along the lines of "lower than average for your item level", which means you have work to do on your rotation (using "your" as a general term, not specifically targeting you). In such a case, someone putting more effort into their playstyle than you are has every right to perform better than you.

As for your second question, good DPS would obviously be contingent on your item level, but assuming that the WAR was ilv 200 in your example, I'd say that a DRG should be doing 1.4k-1.5k DPS in order to be considered "good DPS". I'd call 1.3k-1.4k average.

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Originally Posted by Odett

Regardless, you're saying that above ilv 195 (which is what a WAR would have to be at in order to parse 1.1k in VA) 1.1k DPS makes you a "good DPS", which is again, false. 1.1k dps at that item level is more along the lines of "lower than average for your item level", which means you have work to do on your rotation (using "your" as a general term, not specifically targeting you). In such a case, someone putting more effort into their playstyle than you are has every right to perform better than you.

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I actually said that was encroaching on the realm of good dps. Not equaling it. From what I have heard most dps in pug groups average around 1k-1.1k or lower. The best I have heard of was roughly 1.5k dps. Y̶o̶u̶ ̶i̶g̶n̶o̶r̶e̶d̶ ̶m̶y̶ ̶q̶u̶e̶s̶t̶i̶o̶n̶.̶ ̶ ̶W̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶w̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶s̶i̶d̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶l̶m̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶"̶g̶o̶o̶d̶"̶ ̶d̶p̶s̶?̶ Didn't see the edit, my bad. Maybe I am seriously misjudging something then because a difference of 200-300 dps between a good tank and an average dps seems like a pretty small gap to me. Even a difference of 300-400 dps between a good tank and a good dps of equal item level seems like a horribly small gap.

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Originally Posted by Odett

You also said, and I quote you on this, "surpassing decent average DPS". If you're being surpassed by 1.1k, then you're doing 1k or lower. Doing borderline 1k or less than that at ilv 200 as a DPS makes you a poor DPS compared to the standards that a good DPS player will set at that item level.

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Are we talking about average savage dps here or average pug dps? Because my brother (who is the major source of the numbers I gave, he parses) says he almost never sees a dps break 1.2k in Void Ark or Alexander Normal and that the lowest dps in the party are often down at 800 or so. I'm talking about average pug dps here just to be clear. Random DF peoples.

editing things

I'm just glad the STR vs VIT tank hate will be gone now. I'm also glad to be tanky again without sacrificing tank-"dps" (lel)
(was a str/vit hybrid, depending on which vit piece had parry)

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Originally Posted by bounddreamer

I'm gonna miss you, 10k crit Fell Cleaves. RIP.

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And I'm not going to miss Warriors feeling the need to announce what their fell cleave did or ask if anyone saw it.

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Com...ad4_936701.jpg

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Com...ad4_936701.jpg

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I like number XII :P

Having all 3 tank classes leveled, I am pretty anxious to see how PLD was effected of them all. I love triple fell cleaving things as much as the next person but you can't beat on demand stuns, blind, and physical dmg mitigation.