The cycle of disbanding that keep casuals from doing content

Yes, continue to not help out those who are coming back from 1.0 just now. I'm sure that will increase your numbers in 3.0 when you, and 2 others in your FC are the only ones doing the latest gated content. And lord hope not one single person who has passed the gated content dare leave the game, then you'd have to help others on your server, or play with yourself, which I'm sure most of you are really good at by now.

Now, go eat your ego. Swallow it whole.

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Originally Posted by Aana

So what exactly is a raid group starting on say t10 right now supposed to do with a member that is under geared and not a fast learner exactly? Continue to fail gear checks (tank under geared dying, dps failing dps checks etc). Sitaround wiping to the 1st mechanic for 3 weeks because they are a slow learner? If you are undergeared, you can fix that you self by farming up gear. If you are a slow learner there's nothing anyone but you can do about it. What exactly are you expecting the raid community to do about personal problems like this?

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Originally Posted by Dwill

Time is precious and nobody likes having their time wasted. That means that if I want a quick clear or someone to progress with, I'll choose the geared person that understand mechanics quick enough over the undergeared person who needs to dies to every mechanics 10+ times. Do you think people could have cleared T8 with undergeared DPS when the encounter has a very tight DPS check to meet ? Or tanks with ~6,000 HP getting destroyed by Nael on T9 ?



Ghislain made a lot of other valid points, why don't you try to answer to those ?

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Maybe, just maybe, there are some players out there stuck on T5 (because the groups doing it mostly suck) but are SCoB and FCoB capable.

They might have only just hit 50 and might not be decked out in poetics yet either. (Yeah OK it's a bit early, no one is yet, but you can bet that groups will expect you to be 115 or 120 in a few weeks).

Maybe they had to deal with RL for a bit and came to the patch late.

Not much of an issue for me--I have a social network of raiders. But, you know. I don't think that's a reason to give the middle finger to newcomers. Or as someone just pointed out, returning players.

Why wouldn't that be a reason to give the finger to them? If you're interested in helping, you'll stay. If you're not, then you won't. That's reason enough to say, "hell no" to everyone.

Mmm. I don't have a good answer to that, but I think it says a lot about the raiding community.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Mmm. I don't have a good answer to that, but I think it says a lot about the raiding community.

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I think that's human nature.

Not being geared up is no ones fault but your own. You can be 110 without ever attempting t1. The hardest part of 110 is stumbling through st for a tomestone. If you aren't keeping up with tomes (poetic included) that is your own problem. If you are undergeared that's on you. No one else. Period.

If you legitimately don't have time to cap tomes each week, then reality check: you don't have time to raid either. There goes the geared up argument. Gear is a bare minimum prereq.

If you aren't 110 yet, then what the heck have you been doing since 2.3 sand and oil-palooza exactly?

If you just started and are i55, then go gear up and learn your job in the process. When you catch up, holla atcha boy. Help those that help themselves. Show up in max tome gear and take your own time to research and practice your job and demonstrate some level of mastery of it and then come chat.

When you have done all you can to help yourself then ask for help from others. Aka: show some initiative. Or stare at your empty party finder for the next 4 hrs. That works too I guess

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Originally Posted by Aana

.... Aka: show some initiative. Or stare at your empty party finder for the next 4 hrs...

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And practical terms that means what exactly? People like the OP has tried many different things and have shown initiative more that a few times. Don't be dismissive of the effort that OP has put in.

You can put stuff on the PF, you can join other peoples PF assuming they don't put the "no newbies wanted" comment, or you can shout in Mor Dhona and get ignored just as much as on the PF. You can try convincing your FC to try some to commit time, but most of them are afraid of T5. Invite people to your LS, and get stuck waiting for tanks and healers on the PF together. What else you got in your bag of tricks for showing initiative? Showing initiative doesn't magically solve the networking problem when the people that have experience deliberate choose to exclude everyone else.

That is why I will continue to advocate for people to be more open and more accepting of the newer players. Don't give me the BS about how people are not trying or just want to be spoonfed. That is so far from the truth, when the majority of players are looking to clear stuff and carry their own weight. They just need the opportunity and practice time to go thru the reps and clear the stuff.

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Originally Posted by Dwill

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Ghislain made a lot of other valid points, why don't you try to answer to those ?

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I don't need to comment on captain obvious statements like not all raiders are clear sellers. Which I've said so myself. The rest is all stuff like that. Obvious and unhelpful for the OP.

Shouting, Putting up PF, joining PF, isn't networking. It's a billboard that gives nothing but some visibility. The question is what do you do with that visibility tool. Networking is about person to person communication and connection. The question isn't how many shouts you make or PF you join. It's what do you do to cultivate a relationship with those you meet. If you have a terrible PF group but one person you notice that is kinda decent, you need to make inroads with that individual. Not just disband and say "another 3 hours wasted". You make a connection with that individual. Team up. See if he has any friends in the same boat he can vouche for. Start up the next PF with him. In the words of bat man:

Gordon: "but you're just 1 man."
Batman: "Now we're two"

If no one helps you then help yourself. This isn't some circle of nobility you must be born into to participate and no one is forcibly holding you out of it. Endgame is a SOCIAL endeavor. You must needs create individual relationships with like minded individuals. Shouts, pf, ls, fc are but tools to help identify people. It is still up to you to make connections. The idea that endgamers are somehow restricting access is, bluntly, wrong. That's is scapegoating the blame for personal failure onto a system of oppression that is imagined. What many do not understand is that their lack of success is a direct reflection of their ability to socially connect. And that is a hard pill to swallow.

PF and df are last resort options that require zero social bonds but still give you a CHANCE to win. There was no pf for months and people still raided. PF is a great tool, but its convenience has led some to become completely reliant on it. This obsessive reliance on PF might be doing more harm than good to this game. Their proper use is as a wide fishing net to catch people and then you decide to keep them or throw then back.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

I think that's human nature.

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If you don't want politics brought into the game or the thread, it's worth noting that statements on human nature are inherently political and have been the hotly contested subjects of philosophy, economics, and science alike all trying to influence the outcome of society and culture for generations before either of us were born.

Jussayin'.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

And practical terms that means what exactly?

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As people have mentioned a dozen times. Go out and make friends that can help and learn with you to get it done. Network. Get into linkshells with similarly minded players tackling similar content. Do not in any circumstances expect people to come to you. You must go and meet people, and above all try to get to know them a little. This is an MMO. You're personal success is largely contingent on the support network you build.