Yoshi P talks about Warriors- from Producer Letter Live @ TGS

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Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

Now now you should know they can't account for every strat players come up with the limited size of their testing team, they try but your talking about a team of maybe 20 testers versus 100k+ players who have varying playtstyles

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Dont try and polish a turd. I like this game as much as the next guy, but now did they not think that bringing 2 tanks with a magic "turn damage off" button and several "turn damage half off" buttons would be preferred over 1 that does and the other you have to spam cure to keep alive.

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Originally Posted by TaneshimaPopura

@ Judge_Xero

No way in hell did you just mention Bloodbath = Bulwark. Bulwark is a 85% guaranteed Block of 26-30% Physical damage. And Paladin has access to Bloodbath.

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Yes I did. Since the % Increase Skills are all Multiplicative, what you would be looking at is in the area of ~20%-25% Block Rate on a well Geared Paladin. When they use Bulwark it would increase to 32%-40% Block Rate. The amount blocked would be in the range of 25%-28% with Endgame Gear. So by using Bulwark, you would be looking at an extra 4% damage mitigation over 15 Seconds. So use an Endgame Number of say 800 DPS (32 DPS Mitigation) or 1000 DPS (40DPS Mitigation)

Compare that to Warriors Bloodbath @ 30s with 90CD. You would only need to do 128-160 DPS to hit 32-40DPS Mitigation and it lasts twice as long as Bulwark and can be used twice as much. So essentially 4 times more powerful, and it scales with all damage done, compared to Paladin's Bullwark, which is only on Auto Attack Damage, and some Physical Skills.

Paladin does have Bloodbath. It lasts for 20 Seconds on a 90s CD cross classed. With keeping up a 110 Damage rotation, it would give PLD 27.5 Mitigation over 20 Seconds. Pretty much on par with Bullwark. So at least those two skills combined are almost as good as Bloodbath for Warrior.

The reason I mentioned Stoneskin, was to show that while it's effective for a single large hit, with two healers, it's less effective than just healing the Warrior. The only real advantage would be that the healers could stay in Cleric Stance for extra Damage, while having nearly the same effective heals. But a 10 second window is pretty small to plan for.

Edited: Just had a look at the TAG for this thread "Paladin Supremecy, Warrior Tears" ROFL, those Mods are funny.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

Yes I did. Since the % Increase Skills are all Multiplicative, what you would be looking at is in the area of ~20%-25% Block Rate on a well Geared Paladin. When they use Bulwark it would increase to 32%-40% Block Rate. The amount blocked would be in the range of 25%-28% with Endgame Gear. So by using Bulwark, you would be looking at an extra 4% damage mitigation over 15 Seconds. So use an Endgame Number of say 800 DPS (32 DPS Mitigation) or 1000 DPS (40DPS Mitigation)

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Wrong. Go test it.
Wrath stacks don't multiply your critical hit % either, incase you were wondering.

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Originally Posted by Ruminate

Wrong. Go test it.
Wrath stacks don't multiply your critical hit % either, incase you were wondering.

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No, it is an increase to your Crit, Block Rate etc Stat.

10% + (block rate/10) for block rate

So for Holy Shield with Bullwark = 10% + (167*1.6/10) = 36.72%. So a far cry from 85%.

It is near 85% in my mass pull observation. That is I'm Dex accessories equipped. Even then if you'd say 4% damage mitigation over 15 seconds is in itself wrong. Cause over that 15 seconds, I'm sure as hell going to block more than 2 times without it. In case you were wondering, for me it is as reliable to say that this CD is situationally RnG better than Rampart in dealing with Physical damage to the point where I'd use this as First CD for Dreadnaught 4 tank and Double Dreadnaught with one +2. If RnG puts me out of favor within 2 melee hits I pop Rampart as a backup plan.

2nd Problem is Bloodbath is damage mitigation after damage whereas Rampart is before damage. Meaning 5k hits reduced by your stated 4% would be 4800 which may not have killed you whereas 4% after damage would deal 5k still and killed you before you could drain it back. Also you are putting off Shield Oath's mitigation along with Shield Block efficiency for each HP drained by the Paladin. Based on Shield oath itself The Paladin's Warrior like mitigation is received in 20 seconds that would be of 25s on the warrior.

Tane, you know you can make a single post and then edit it to go beyond the character limit?

@Phreak

Oh Thanks... I was wondering why this stupid quick post would limit sub 1,000 characters. =_=

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

No, it is an increase to your Crit, Block Rate etc Stat.

10% + (block rate/10) for block rate

So for Holy Shield with Bullwark = 10% + (167*1.6/10) = 36.72%. So a far cry from 85%.

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again with the random numbers

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Originally Posted by Phreak

again with the random numbers

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Especially given that those numbers are wrong.

ARR is weird insofar as there isn't a lot of consistency in whether effects are multiplicative or additive. The safe rule of thumb is for increases to effects to be multiplicative and for increases to chances to be additive. Bulwark is *most definitely* additive: activate it and you can pretty much guarantee a block. I do it all the time on Titan right before Mountain Buster.

My mistake. It seems that the way it works is different now. Shield Block rate is a lot lower now (~0.1% per Block Rate Stat), and Bullwark is indeed additive.

So for comparison's sake, +15% Mitigation for 10 seconds. 800 DPS (120 DPS) 1000 (150 DPS)

Warrior would need 80 DPS - 100 DPS for them to mitigate the same amount of damage. In a fight that's less than 120 Seconds, it would need to do 160-200 DPS.

It would be nice if they change the warrior cross class from puglist to lancer then having keen furry would be nice then featherfoot.
But I cant complain cause featherfoot has save me twice from titans mountain buster.