Alpha First Look: Video 5 - Quests and Combat

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Originally Posted by Kerwin

Isn't this the starting area to the alpha? I would imagine we will get more extensive and in depth quests come higher leveled areas.

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Don't imagine, tell them what you want.

There is no point in having forums if everyone is just going to hope they do it right. You have to express your opinion. You have to tell them what kind of things you want to see. If you want in depth quests with progression, you have to say so.

If the only quest you have seen is not adequate, you cannot assume others are different, That is how we got 1.0.

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Originally Posted by Zetsumei_Tsunarashi

Wrote my initial reaction to this video down in LS forums so I'll just repost here:

One thing that sort of irks me about this video is that they only did one quest at a time. In order to really make quests effective, you need to be able to accept and complete multiple quests at the same time before returning to the quest hub. The fact that they didn't show the character accepting and completing multiple quests at the same time makes me feel like the the devs did not understand that doing only one quest at a time is not time effective and therefore the quest system is probably not streamlined to allow for the completion of multiple quests in a timely manner.

While the addition of exp quests is nice, I think SE does not realize that players that are used to quest based leveling (WoW players) have become very efficient at it over the years, and if the quest system does not enable them to be efficient levelers, it will probably turn them away.

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You have a halfway decent point here, Wow had an awesome addon called quest helper that would prioritize your quest in the order you would need to complete them the fastest. While this was an "addon" to the interface. After a few years of being the most popular addon, Blizzard took notice and incorporated Questhelper functions into the actual game!

The only thing missing was the dotted line to the next closest objective, prioritizing quests so you can separate them based on difficulty, and the on screen arrow pointing you in the direction you needed to go!

While, at first I hated quest helper. When I started leveling several characters, I loved it, because I was doing the same quests OVER and OVER! So it made getting them done so much faster!

However, that is part of the charm of FFXIV! You don't have to do quests over and over because you have 1 character! You only do a quest once, because you have 1 character! So this feeling of needing a quest helper to pound through the quests in mass doesn't feel so necessary anymore, now does it?

Now sure there will be WoW players, and achievement elitist that want to pound through their objects just to be done with it first. But that's their prerogative. Note mine. I don't think FFXIV needs a robust quest helper that gives you all the answers because it isn't necessary to do quests over and over for grinding. As long as their is is enough quests to move you through the world and you can level yourself up decently by just "Questing". And you don't run out of quests, because you are coming back through with the same character in the same area but can't level up by questing because you have already done all the quests with your Main job. I'll be happy!

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Apparently, you do not play Final Fantasy Games. Side quests are not simple, one objective throwaways. Side quests in Final Fantasy games are intricately weaved in to the story. The serve to bring greater amounts of depths to Secondary character. They expand upon the world in which the game takes place.

The kind of quests demoed in this video are not side quests. They are XP throw aways. They serve no purpose except to give Solo players a way to gain XP.

If you want a quest base leveling system, you have to do it right. You don't give players five quests that ask them to kill 5 different monster ten times. That's just solo grinding. You make quests that involve the developments of the region in which they take place. You have them lead players to interesting places and to meet knew characters.

If your "Quest" requires you to talk to the starting NPC more than doing anything else, it's not a Quest. It's an XP give away. There shouldn't be hundreds of Quests. There should be dozens of long progressive quests.

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Apparently you don't have a clue about what you're talking about.

I'll get straight to the point. Side Quest in Final Fantasy is optional. You don't have to do it, you don't have to get a Gold Chocobo, you don't have to get Lion Heart. throwaway quest right? because you don't need them to beat the game.

What they demoed was two quest aimed for Lv12 and below, what else do you expect from a 5min demo?

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Originally Posted by Kiote

This is mindless, repetitive and boring. Worse than that though, it makes people not want to read the Quests. They serve no purpose but XP. This severely degrades the enjoyability of the game. You might as well be doing an FFXI Party grind. At least in a party grind, your not alone.

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That's entirely up to the player. I know myself and others actually LIKE to read quests. If you want to just skip through quest text that's your prerogative. At least the quest text presented in the ARR quests are made so that the NPC is actually talking to you and not some box with a bunch of text and an accept button so you could realistically never see one word said. Sure you can skip through the quest text, but you're just depriving yourself of what the quest is actually about.

And for what it's worth, I'd rather do a bunch of Accept button box text quests before grinding on the same monsters for hours at a time to progress.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

No, there is a massive difference. What I wrote out is an Example of a Quest with progression. The WoW-like quests they demoed in this Video have no progression at all. They are nothing more than XP throw aways.

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It's not as if WoW's leveling quests had much progression towards anything. Each zone usually had a quest or two that eventually pointed you in the direction of a dungeon. Based on the two quests you saw, how do you know the same won't hold true in ARR?

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Originally Posted by strallaalaa

@andrien on his last question... instanced dungeons, you get players trying to join that are just exp'ing. or want to run quests in it rather then just gear up. so you still have to shout

it makes it unentertaining since your doing both at same time. it also halves the content since your doing both at same time. when you hit the level you want you just move onto the next one so really the dungeon gear is just a bonus and the next dungeons and beyond you get fuk tards all half geared and making runs long and more tedious then it should of already been.

theres probably other things wrong with leveling in dungeons but i can't think of them at moment. but the biggest thing is it makes endgame underwelming and less epic when it was the same thing your just leveling with too.

oh and in the end what mmo has even gotten expansions lately? i not keeping track but i don't think many are really pulling out large new expansions. lot are failing ..going f2p and maybe after long time give small expansions. soooo, what is the point of endgame at all then? you don't need it for anything cause nothing new is coming lol. :)

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I think the devs said it loud and clear that certain dungeons are aimed for EXP. Ex: Lv45+ exp dungeons.
I don't think its fair to assume one dungeon is aimed for loot and exp, but I think there will be a detailed search function to recruit people based on what you're seeking.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Here's the thing..

When you play a WoW-like MMO, level progression is always the same.

1. Go to Quest Hub
2. Obtain all Quest in the Area
3. Leave Quest Hub
4. Complete simple Quest Objectives listed above
5. Return to Quest Hub
6. Move to Next Quest Hub

This is mindless, repetitive and boring. Worse than that though, it makes people not want to read the Quests. They serve no purpose but XP. This severely degrades the enjoyability of the game. You might as well be doing an FFXI Party grind. At least in a party grind, your not alone.

The fix, is very simple.

1. Go to NPC Hub
2. Select One Quest
3. Proceed to Location
4. Complete simple Quest Objective
5. Something Dangerous happens
6. Quest Objective - Run for your life
7. Get Saved by something
8. Examine the Previous Danger
9. Get call on your Linkshell from Quest Giver
10. Investigate what caused the danger
11. Get lead to some cool location like a dungeon
12. Unlocks a new area
13. Complete a starter objective in the dungeon
14. Bring your Findings to the NPC

The Quests demonstrated in the Alpha video are the painfully boring cookie cutter WoW-Clone Quests that have destroyed this Genre by turning MMOs in to Single Player games. By simply adding plot twists and adding additional objectives to quests, you remove the boring NPC > Kill > NPC and create a Miniature story progression. Players will become immersed in the world and pushed to explore if the quest spontaneously pushes them away from their original destination and grouping will be Promoted by guiding players to group combat zones or boss fights.

NPC > Kill > NPC is the reason every WoW-Clone has failed to hold the attention of Modern Players.

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Umm, what you described was a quest chain. How do you know that in the video that was shown wasn't smaller quests in a quest chain?

And one thing I would like to add, in how quests should flow. Is that some of the quests in the Quest chain have a no win scenario. Where you make a decision and it sends you off on a different quest path because of that decision.

Quests that put value in your actions are the most rewarding. Sure they are time consuming, but it makes things interesting.

And one thing to note about FFXIV, is that since we have one character, it would be nice if you could repeat these quests and pick the different path to take. The NPC just needs to notice that you are repeating the quest and say,
"Welcome back!, decided to take another stab at this quest?"

I would just prefer if the NPC, required you to complete the entire quest chain before you can complete it. That way you can come back with your lvl 15 Pug, Gla, Arc and do the quest but make different decisions to see a different outcome. Such quests take time to plan out carefully, but are worth the effort!

Jesus. People complain so much ;vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

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Originally Posted by Linkurrra

Umm, what you described was a quest chain. How do you know that in the video that was shown wasn't smaller quests in a quest chain?

And one thing I would like to add, in how quests should flow. Is that some of the quests in the Quest chain have a no win scenario. Where you make a decision and it sends you off on a different quest path because of that decision.

Quests that put value in your actions are the most rewarding. Sure they are time consuming, but it makes things interesting.

And one thing to note about FFXIV, is that since we have one character, it would be nice if you could repeat these quests and pick the different path to take. The NPC just needs to notice that you are repeating the quest and say,
"Welcome back!, decided to take another stab at this quest?"

I would just prefer if the NPC, required you to complete the entire quest chain before you can complete it. That way you can come back with your lvl 15 Pug, Gla, Arc and do the quest but make different decisions to see a different outcome. Such quests take time to plan out carefully, but are worth the effort!

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THIS. THIS. A THOUSAND TIMES THIS.

Most people haven't realized that this is currently what's happening in World of Warcraft. Quests aren't nearly as throw-away as they used to be, and to some degree they're almost engaging. Daily Quests still suck though.

Dear Yoshi and team,

You are my heroes.

Love, Priya


Some of the sexiest alpha footage I've ever seen. (The quest accepted/completed fanfare may be a hair long-winded, though).

So you're telling me you'd rather grind out 8million of the same mob for a few levels instead of having an objective to accomplish? Because I don't know about you but between 9 years on XI and one year on XIV I'm glad to see leveling become possible in a fashion other than grinding in an MMO FF. Don't worry I'm aye grinding will still be possible. Also, these are low level xp quests, nothing to do with the story I'm sure. Or even story focused side quests. So stop being a whiney little c*** and maybe appreciate the incredible amount of work YoshiP and his team have put into what most of us that have been paying attention, is sure to be an exciting and engaging game.