Yoshi-P Statement on Player Feedback

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Originally Posted by Thatusernameistaken

In case it hasn't been made painfully obvious by now, you're the kind of person YP is talking about.

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If echoing someone's own sentiment that they don't play tanks at high level, and voicing a dislike for Eureka-style content in a straightforward manner, while still not name calling is this community's standard for horrible, unbearable cruelty? Then it's plain the community only tolerates Stepford positive feedback.

The problem pervading this thread isn't Yoshi telling lunatic JP players issuing death threats to knock it off. It's the babying NA community equating "this content/design is bad" with unimaginable horror that shouldn't be countenanced.

I will continue my broken record statements that FFXIV's community's worst problem is its toxic fake positivity and lionization of passive-aggression as "mature" behavior.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

If echoing someone's own sentiment that they don't play tanks at high level, and voicing a dislike for Eureka-style content in a straightforward manner, while still not name calling is this community's standard for horrible, unbearable cruelty? Then it's plain the community only tolerates Stepford positive feedback.

The problem pervading this thread isn't Yoshi telling lunatic JP players issuing death threats to knock it off. It's the babying NA community equating "this content/design is bad" with unimaginable horror that shouldn't be countenanced.

I will continue my broken record statements that FFXIV's community's worst problem is its toxic fake positivity and lionization of passive-aggression as "mature" behavior.

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What is it with people struggling to grasp the notion; "It is not what you say but how you say it" - You don't need to outright be offensive or rude. Simply stating, or trying to push the agenda that the developers are lazy, particularly from people who aren't even remotely qualified to do the self-same job, or of equal proportion is almost absurdly laughable. #

I need only practically look at the myriad of threads on this forum to see a clear and noticeable portion of people using it as an opportunity to be either rude and disrespectful towards people that more than likely work harder than the absolute vast majority of people on this forum. Take for example telling a developer or making the statement that they should be fired simply because their design philosophy doesn't align with your own. - What you and many people need to realise is that there is a distinction between criticising the content and the design of aforementioned content, and then criticising the developers themselves as a result. I've seen a fair few cases where people have taken less time criticising the content and how it can be improved, and more time trying to spurt out nonsensical and counterproductive remarks.

You can construe the behaviour as you wish. If someone acting like a fairly decent human being constitutes as fake positivity or passive-aggressive then by all means... Personally I'd rather not have a decrepit moral compass.

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Originally Posted by Crossu

Important to note that he's talking mostly to the japanese playerbase.

We're okay, they don't read the english forums.

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Considering the way "feedback" is presented here I wouldn't read it either.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

What does any of that have to do with my terminology? Are you saying because I do not work in this industry I cannot have an opinion of what poor design is?

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You can have an opinion. You actually know how to phrase things without personal enmity showing. But you don't. And you aren't complaining about 'poor design', you are accusing developers of being 'lazy', which is not the same thing.

I asked about your familiarity with software programming. It looks like you've done small projects for college, but haven't actually worked on something with a budget, bosses, or specific requirements you don't get to choose. It doesn't look as though you were working on a game or a web site where you had to interact with other departments of developers who produce art work, music, and text to specifications provided by someone else.

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My tone is aggressive, if you feel that is mean than that is your misinterpretation. Honestly it is extremely petty how the term lazy is being blown out of proportion vs saying lack of effort, activity, and care. Has the world changed that much to where lazy is now offensive, mean, or derogatory?

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The term 'lazy' is a negative term used without thought. It is an excuse to condemn a section of the population without knowing anything about them. It has been used in the past as an excuse to treat minorities, or the poor in general, as trash. It is indeed offensive, mean and derogatory when used the way you've done.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

The term 'lazy' is a negative term used without thought. It is an excuse to condemn a section of the population without knowing anything about them. It has been used in the past as an excuse to treat minorities, or the poor in general, as trash. It is indeed offensive, mean and derogatory when used the way you've done.

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There it is. Trying to turn it political.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

There it is. Trying to turn it political.

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"To paraphrase William James, politics is something that happens to an idea. Nothing is “political” in and of itself; a person’s convictions are “political” because of what politicians argue about. A person is not responsible for whether or not his or her beliefs are controversial. That’s why the most common rejoinder to “you shouldn’t get political” is simply, “What I’m saying shouldn’t be ‘political.’ It shouldn’t be controversial at all. The blame for making this commitment political rests on those who contest it.” The argument is either (a) commitment to this value goes deeper than politics, or (b) this is a fact and it should be uncontroversial. This is the defense used—fairly—when priests preach about caring for the poor or the unborn, when athletes talk about racial profiling by police officers, when movies depict history with obvious parallels to the present, and when professors teach about systemic inequality. In these and other cases, people don’t set out to make a “political statement,” they set out to tell a truth—a truth that just so happens to be politicized by some members our culture.

This is not to say that all statements of this type are actually true. It’s fine to argue that a statement is wrong, misleading, or irrelevant. But to protest or dismiss a statement simply because it’s political is to deny that there are some truths which have a claim on us regardless of our party affiliation."

http://www.forthesakeofarguments.com...o-be-political

That's a lot of words defending laziness.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

What is it with people struggling to grasp the notion; "It is not what you say but how you say it" - You don't need to outright be offensive or rude.

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what is it with people like you saying things like that and then starting to go on a toxic tirade against the people they disagree with, which happens throughout the whole thread? several posts had zero indication that the person criticizing the devs/their job design or whatever used any mean words, yet people like you go on huge rants about how they must've been overtly aggressive and come to other various assumption about the other side of the argument to vilify the other side
follow your own words, for once and be nice

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Simply stating, or trying to push the agenda that the developers are lazy, particularly from people who aren't even remotely qualified to do the self-same job, or of equal proportion is almost absurdly laughable. #

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the big majority of people who voice their concerns and issues with the game do so in a completely civil and constructive ways and the same crap happens, and yes, some of the people are or have been game devs and yet, people are still attacking them because to some people SE can do no wrong

and stop with this "you need to be qualified in X to be able to judge Y" fanboy/girl crap, it's never been an actual argument
not for art, not for music, not for game design, not for anything

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

and stop with this "you need to be qualified in X to be able to judge Y" fanboy/girl crap, it's never been an actual argument
not for art, not for music, not for game design, not for anything

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You don't have to work or be an expert in the field to critique or give feedback on a product or service. However you probably should know something about the actual process if you're going to start criticizing the character and work ethic of the people behind them.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

You don't have to work or be an expert in the field to critique or give feedback on a product or service. However you probably should know something about the actual process if you're going to start criticizing the character and work ethic of the people behind them.

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...which many people that got attacked in this thread didn't do, not to mention that it's, in my eyes, completely valid to complain and criticize said work ethic when it results in issues like these - or the current undertune of dancer and whm's mp issues, which should have been noticed when testing