Pulling During Cutscene

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Lie about what?


Umm, me answering my phone is me choosing not to participate. It's fine, though, because the intention of my choice to not participate wasn't to grief my team.

It's the same with the cut scene; if your intention is only to wait until everyone is ready. Like, for instance, if you're in an EX raid and half a ready check doesn't pass, but a DPS runs in and pulls the boss anyways. No one's obligated to run in with him.

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Goji, being afk 'cause you're answering the phone does not, in any way, equate to being at your computer, or holding your controller, and not pressing your buttons. Outside influences are excusable. Real life will always come before a game. But if you are not pressing your buttons because you want it to be "fair" for cutscene viewers, and you put yourself on this righteous pedestal, that is reportable. Ty.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

So, if I get up and walk away from my keyboard to do something while waiting it won't be reportable then?

You're adding caveats to the rules that don't exist. Maybe I was at my keyboard but got momentarily distracted chatting with my FC; not bannable.

Whether or not it's breaking the ToS depends 100% on intent; not your proximity to a controller or keyboard, or whether your reasons for not participating exist inside or outside of the game.

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What are you trying to prove here, Goji? Are we going to talk in circles all day? Sure, there are loopholes to be in the clear for sabotaging. And if you go to those lengths to get around getting in trouble for purposefully not participating, it really shows what kind of person you are. Not participating when someone pulls, not playing the job you queued up for, is griefing. It is reportable. It has gotten people banned. But sure, you're the good guy. Keep moral grandstanding. I really see what that person was calling you out for.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Thing is that there's implied intent to be disruptive behind a rule like this that isn't stated in the rule. Someone going AFK to answer a phone; check on their child; etc., is technically disrupting every other person in the group. There's no intent to be disruptive there, though, like there's no intent to be disruptive when you're simply waiting for someone.

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Yep, which is why admitting to intentionally 'disrupting' the gameplay experience for other players probably will and has gotten players banned, while I doubt players are getting banned for saying "sorry have to afk". However, "waiting"' for a player can be viewed as intent to be disruptive, because a player who is willfully not participating in content - and stating such - is disrupting the gameplay experience for the player(s) who pulled.

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

Goji, being afk 'cause you're answering the phone does not, in any way, equate to being at your computer, or holding your controller, and not pressing your buttons. Outside influences are excusable. Real life will always come before a game. But if you are not pressing your buttons because you want it to be "fair" for cutscene viewers, and you put yourself on this righteous pedestal, that is reportable. Ty.

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So, if I get up and walk away from my keyboard to do something while waiting it won't be reportable then?

You're adding caveats to the rules that don't exist. Maybe I was at my keyboard but got momentarily distracted chatting with my FC; not bannable.

Whether or not it's breaking the ToS depends 100% on intent; not your proximity to a controller or keyboard, or whether your reasons for not participating exist inside or outside of the game.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Yep, which is why admitting to intentionally 'disrupting' the gameplay experience for other players probably will and has gotten players banned, while I doubt players are getting banned for saying "sorry have to afk". However, "waiting"' for a player can be viewed as intent to be disruptive, because a player who is willfully not participating in content - and stating such - is disrupting the gameplay experience for the player(s) who pulled.

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Saying, "sorry have to afk" is still willfully not participating in the content and stating such, though. The key is stating your actual intention to disrupt the group in chat. Announcing you let someone die because you don't like them would be actionable. Saying you were just waiting for a new player to catch up wouldn't be.

Man, the last 3-4 pages is like watching kids fighting over a toy.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

So, if I get up and walk away from my keyboard to do something while waiting it won't be reportable then?

You're adding caveats to the rules that don't exist. Maybe I was at my keyboard but got momentarily distracted chatting with my FC; not bannable.

Whether or not it's breaking the ToS depends 100% on intent; not your proximity to a controller or keyboard, or whether your reasons for not participating exist inside or outside of the game.

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If a player were to "wait" specifically due to a pull in a cutscene, and willfully not participate, seeing as others have apparently gotten banned for specifically 3.2, it is against the ToS. The problem is proving the intent to be 'disruptive'.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

If a player were to "wait" specifically due to a pull in a cutscene, and willfully not participate, seeing as others have apparently gotten banned for specifically 3.2, it is against the ToS. The problem is proving the intent to be 'disruptive'.

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The problem is that there is no intent to be disruptive in simply waiting for someone. To be honest, pulling before everyone is ready is probably easier to interpret as being disruptive.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

If a player were to "wait" specifically due to a pull in a cutscene, and willfully not participate, seeing as others have apparently gotten banned for specifically 3.2, it is against the ToS. The problem is proving the intent to be 'disruptive'.

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Well then people are left in a no win situation other than not admit anything in chat. Because pulling early before everyone is ready is disrupting other people’s play as well. So if I’m in a group and one person is in a cutscene and another pulls my only option is to just not say anything. If I join the fight I can be reported for disrupting the cutscene viewers play (since they don’t know who pulled) and if I don’t join I can be reported for disrupting the pullers play. It seems like my best option is to just not talk at all.

I guess this is what FF XIV’s stellar community has come to.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

The problem is that there is no intent to be disruptive in simply waiting for someone. To be honest, pulling before everyone is ready is probably easier to interpret as being disruptive.

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Players have the option to automatically skip cutscenes, many times it's completely on accident to pull early; it's not necessarily intentional, it's general routine. It's very easy to miss someone is still in a cutscene, and for that matter, I'm pretty sure there is a way to actually watch them after the fact. More often than not players aren't watching cutscenes, and if a player is watching a cutscene, they can still participate after it (in most cases). Choosing not to participate, is, however, intentional, and stating such is seemingly actionable.

I'm a new player and I nearly quit the game yesterday due to players behaving this way. I came to this game because I heard the community was better, I have learned that they can be just as selfish and unhelpful as others. They made me feel like I was a burden to their group, they just wanted to pull fast and get everything done as quickly as possible. They didn't care one bit if there was a new player in the group, as a Black Mage I barely even got any casts off because of how they were playing. I couldn't even tell them to slow down because they were pulling so fast and starting cut scenes before I got a chance to say anything, even doing skips that I was unaware of. I was not impressed by this experience, I'm still debating if I should subscribe to this game, if players are going to be so impatient and indifferent then it is not worth it.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Players have the option to automatically skip cutscenes, many times it's completely on accident to pull early; it's not necessarily intentional, it's general routine. It's very easy to miss someone is still in a cutscene, and for that matter, I'm pretty sure there is a way to actually watch them after the fact. More often than not players aren't watching cutscenes, and if a player is watching a cutscene, they can still participate after it (in most cases). Choosing not to participate, is, however, intentional, and stating such is seemingly actionable.

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However if you pull early and admit to it then you have the intent to report them under 3.2. Since this whole thread started with OP saying they defend people who purposely pull early because their time is more important than other players’ being able to watch the cutscenes 3.2 seems to apply here. Again, the key seems to be none of us should ever talk to another player because anything we say can and will be used against us.