But...I...I don't wanna DPS, I'm a healer...

So they can avoid dpsing themself*
(On mobile and there's no edit button there)

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Originally Posted by Tint

yes, because after your 'logic' you forgot:

whm who never use hots
ast who never use cards
sch who never use shields



so... keeping everyone alive is being lazy and the healing type of healer isn't even part of the team? and a healer who uses all his healing skills and healing cds and shields is compareable to any DPS who doesn't use his DPS-buffs or a tank who doesn't use his defense-buffs?

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Hence why I said "need I go on?" which you conveniently ignored.

People like you need to realize one very simple irrefutable fact about this game.

ROLES ARE NOT SET IN STONE, THIS IS NOT THAT KIND OF GAME

If that's the kind of experience you want then find a game that fits what you want better instead of being a scrub dragging everyone else down.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

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I am not sure that you can call it a snowflake anymore, because it gets dragged through too much shi...

Agree on the point that nobody should stand idle and do nothing, just pointing out that dpsing healers are covering other problems that should be fixed first.

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

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Look at it from DF perspective. Do you want to scare even more healers away from the queues? Healer that only heals is still better than healer who started to play dps jobs due to screwing up while trying to dps.

I am not sure if expecting healers to dps as some sort of norm is a good idea. Healer damage should be an extra - which few posters mentioned. It is same as expecting mass pulls from a tank who can't handle it. It leads to issues and not everyone is battle hardened enough to deal with enraged randoms.

So yeah... This religion of not dpsing healers is mainly here to keep our healers healing instead of scaring them away imo

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Originally Posted by Archaell

snip

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So here's another thing that's commonly forgotten. If healer dps would scare away healers, why would there be roughly as many encouraging healers to deal damage as those who discourage it? If healer dps really does scare away healers, the "balance" of this "discussion" would be tilted more towards many, many posts discouraging healer dps.

There's also the kind of thing where tanks are encouraged to go for strength gear and dps jobs to go for a certain rotation to maximize their output. Which is their equivalent of our whole "discussion" about to dps or not to; getting the most out of the job/role you're playing.

Sadly, all the drama's happening here and not in the other forums. The reasoning for this can be found in my other post on the previous page.

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Originally Posted by Archaell

So yeah... This religion of not dpsing healers is mainly here to keep our healers healing instead of scaring them away imo

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you mean like him?

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Originally Posted by PriestAlseid

Thanks for all the input guys, but I really think I should find somewhere else to play. Enjoy your gaming guys, I had a kinda fun month here. :-)

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Originally Posted by braneri1

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Here we go again, it's the game we love ♪

Roles are not set in stone, yes, hence why some tanks turn on their DPS instances, DPS classes use songs/buffs that help the party while lowering their damage and healers do DPS. This DOES NOT MEAN any of these things are their primary responsability.

If, as a healer, outside of hardcore endgame, I decide to not DPS, I'm not dragging anyone down because:
• It's not my main role.
• The game is not designed with healer damage in the calculations.
• My priority is to keep everyone alive, buffed and use my cooldowns accordingly to the situations while predicting danger.

The same applies to DPS who focus on their damage instead of buffs and Tanks who focus on enmity generation: are they using their class to their extremely full potential? No.
Are they playing their class to a sufficient extent so the party can advance without trouble? Yes.

All this healer DPS mentality was never endorsed by the devs outside of endgame hardcore content, and I really think this began with reminiscent players from WoW or other games that are not Final Fantasy to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Tint

you mean like him?

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Oh, so they really managed to ruin the game for someone, because you know, efficiency comes before fun and all that crap.

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Originally Posted by Archaell

The golden age of tank and healer only groups. Yay \o/

Seriously... First worry about dps players whose job is to do dps and yet quite often they do less damage than tanks and healers. Then we can worry about healers who refuse to dps. I know it is easy to think that the healer is responsible for slow dungeons , but as it is right now your average healer is still putting in more effort than your average dps player, so the blame is totally missing the correct target.

If everybody tried to contribute as much as possible that would be blissful.

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Yes absolutely dps have more of an effect on that, I was never blaming healers who don't dps for slow runs. My point is that the line of thought people use to say healers should not dps is extremely flawed and a double standard they use to avoid any sort of accountability. It's an excuse to deliberately ignore a great deal of your skill set while expecting others to put out high levels of performance. They think they should have the right to be carried and only heal even when the vast, vast majority of this game requires so little healing it's pathetic. "As long as the content is cleared then who cares?" is the worst attitude to have and that is the reason why I listed some examples of what applying their double standard in a fair way across the board would amount to, which is made even stronger given the high simplicity of many of them (fists of fire for example, one button you press once and you never have to touch it again for an entire instance, which makes up a lot of your damage potential...and yet I come across people who literally refuse to use it even after being asked multiple times and multiple pulls later, as I give people a chance if they just didn't realize it themselves at first; I have even forgotten a few times myself and would be glad for the reminder).

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Originally Posted by Tint

you mean like him?

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He already has his mind made up, this is extremely obvious due to his defeatist mindset displayed through his posts here. All he was looking for is an echo chamber.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

Oh, so they really managed to ruin the game for someone, because you know, efficiency comes before fun and all that crap.

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This is assuming that playing in an efficient manner is inherently opposed to having fun. Great logic there.

"Quit being such a tryhard waaaaah"

"defeatist mindset"

I'm done, bye.

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

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Here is the thing. Every cleric stance CD puts you in a vulnerable position. During this time situations can happen that lead to failing your main priority - healing. It's pressure that not every healer can handle.

Imo dpsing as healer is better than not dpsing... but! You need to reach certain level of skill and confidence.

It is also important to think about this in context. When mobs die fast it is easier to heal and dps. This isn't always the case tho. Right now many dps players do job so poor it is hard to believe it. When mobs and bosses die at snail pace it is bloody hard to keep your MP up or to heal through increasing dmg. This creates the situation where healers think that they are barely able to heal and it also makes dpsing out of question... which is a little paradox, because if you dps, things die faster and your role gets easier. Yet again you need to reach certain level of skill and confidence.

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Originally Posted by braneri1

"As long as the content is cleared then who cares?"

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I thought that this sentence is used mainly by dps Netflixers ^^

Here is the problem. Healers and tanks are right now more accountable than dps players. So until we fix this (vote for parsers!) then you can't really talk about double standards here. Maybe if healers saw how much dps they can do, and that they sometimes can outdps even dps classes, there would be more of them willing to dps.