An open discsusion on the consequences of death

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Originally Posted by ESAR

I think I have a solution to your problem.

If SP was distributed EVERY hit (I have a perfect calculation to do so)found here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ginal-ideas-!-! or here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...t-Distribution

Everyone would be less likely to want to die, as the downtime would effect SP gain.

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Your ideas are good.. but I don't see how the downtime of dieing and then running back to your party or monster would be any different if you were gaining SP with each hit.. could you elaborate? In this thread, please =P

If we go back to action-based SP, everyone will revert do doing stupid behavior like spamming status WSes, tanking naked, and having archers stand in front of the raptors' AOE breath move.

So no SP/XP loss? You would rather have durability loss? OK.

Introduce Brittle gear and/or Break On Death gear. Have some or all gear break at 0% dura. Have special items/accessories that break once the character dies.

I also want to add that when instanced dungeons are introduced (they will be, count on it) that there will probably be no aetheryte to save you. When you die in the instance, you will have to be Raised or home point out. If they have an aetheryte, it will be at the start and high level instances won't have time for you to run back, weakened, to where you last died.

There is your great penalty: Failure.

SP penalty? You must be masochist... it'll never prevent anyone from using a r1 job to death warp as much as it won't prevent anyone from fighting with crap gear, and will only annoy people who die doing, say, stupid leve, running into a random r60+ aggro mob that wander in a noob area, die going to camp to bring back leve (high rank ones)... and so on.

imagine dying on your craft job and how pissed you'd be, then think again about the SP penalty. There should be some penalty, maybe higher recast timers and stuff. SP? forget it. it's "has been".

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Originally Posted by Stilla

Introduce bonus effects for not dieing, so when you die, you loose the effect of the bonus.


For example:

Slaying and defeating adversaries currently gives players experience points. If in addition to the level progression experience points they give you for killing beasts, you also received points for staying alive. The points gained are used to reach milestones which result in attribute bonuses.

With each milestone you receive, you will enhance certain aspects of your Player Character.

Lets just say there are 5 tiers.

* Rank 0 – No effects.

* Rank 1 (5,000 points) – Raise all Attributes by 1

* Rank 2 (10,000 points)– Raise all Attributes by an additional 1

* Rank 3 (20,000 points)– Raise all Attributes by an additional 1 and gain an additional effect to increase running speed.

* Rank 4 (30,000 points) – Raise all Attributes by an additional 3

* Rank 5 (50,000 points) - Raise all Attributes by an additional 5 and gain an additional effect to increase running speed.

If you obtained rank 5 and you died, you would fall to rank 4. If you were rank 1 and died you would fall to rank 0. If you are rank 0 and die there is no loss as you are have no bonus effect.

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Yeah, this is sort of like my idea, but I like your concept of achieving "staying alive" bonus better. The flaw with what I proposed is that you could just eventually get the "staying alive" bonus by not playing for a while. In your proposal, you actually have to work and play the game to get the status. You have to earn it.

To make things interesting, I would suggest that if you die, you revert to rank 0. That would make death even more tragic and scary.

Everyone saying that the current penalty is fine or the current penalty is enough... well that's the problem in my opinion. I think the penalty for dying should be bad enough to make us think that it's NOT fine or it's TOO much. This isn't because I like pain. It's because I think this is what gives battle in the game that sense of danger. The exp loss in FFXI did a great job doing this.

I do understand what people are saying with how running back and exp loss are both time sinks in the end. The feeling I got when facing danger was very different though. Running back from the aetheryte is simply a matter of time, and the thought that goes through my mind when I'm about to die is literally "oh well... it's only going to take five minutes to get back here." When my party got into an "Oh shit!" situation in ffxi, it was "oh man! I don't wanna die!!" I'm sure there are many factors that play into this difference of reaction when facing danger, and I think the lack of penalty for dying is one of them.

I do agree that there should be a heavier penalty for dying, but I don't think exp/sp penalty is right for the current FFXIV. Every monster having a ranged attack does make it hard to avoid death sometimes even if you know what you're doing, and the difficulty level jump from increasing/decreasing it by one star is too big for some leves; 4 stars can be impossible while 3 stars can be too easy for the same leve. The exp loss penalty may fit more once they change the battle system.

Shouldn't a death penalty be something people are adverse to other than something they prefer? Its like asking a thief in real life what they want as punishment for robbery and all thieves agreeing that jail is too harsh and that the best punishment for them getting caught is to just walk back and put the item they stole back.

I've pretty much never died in battle except in circumstances of lag and latency. XP loss is "acceptable" for me, but if I'm to be punished for death, I'd rather it be because of something stupid that I did rather than because of issues with the system. However, it's impossible for the game to differentiate the cause of death on the server-side, and any punishment implemented to generic death would necessarily affect latency death as well. Ergo, latency is so terrible at the moment that I don't think it would be right to discuss death penalties just yet. It'd be better to wait until this is a non-issue.

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Originally Posted by Raim

Make the debuff on death longer, decrease the reward of the leve/dungeon/etc if you must. Anything more is a pointless argument because if you implement experience loss on death, SE will be losing a huge amount of potential customers. Something they especially can't afford to do right now.

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what game are you plaing? ffxiv already lost 90% of it's player base with no death penalty as it is....