#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

All these ideas are fine and dandy but they are utterly pointless if we don't know if SE wants to keep in lines with their current design philosophy.

What we needed was our content creators to ask more relevant questions regarding class design, 2min, homogenized classes and roles.

If this is the design space SE wants to keep FFXIV in they should say that so people can just leave or learn to deal.

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except, the "content creators" wont, because then they might not get invited to the next media tour.

I would love for SE to say something, to give us an idea of this is their idea of "perfect" so that we know if we should continue on or leave.

but they will not... they will keep trying to get money for as long as possible while falsely advertising "you can play it your way" until people get disgusted and just leave.

but I think you can throw the community "leaders" into the same basket as content creators. if thy havent been passing along concerns for years... or mentioned this thread... then they are just as guilty

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Originally Posted by Connor

I’m not really sure what Blue Mage has to do with the healer role as a limited job. Unless you’re saying ‘If you want to think about using abilities just play a limited job!’, which I’ll admit I certainly wasn’t expecting. I mean, I guess, but I’d prefer being able to do actual content lol.

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Blue mage is the only truly open job that doesn't follow any rotation because you can make it, there is an online standard in the blue mage community but you don't have to follow it. Thats why I brought it up its the only job thats like this.
Ever since ARR we have had a built in rotation for pretty much every single job, so its a fundemental aspect of the game that can't be removed, so healer dps kits would have a clearly designed pattern if the devs added them. Look at the current magical dps they're all rotation based.

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

Blue mage is the only truly open job that doesn't follow any rotation because you can make it, there is an online standard in the blue mage community but you don't have to follow it. Thats why I brought it up its the only job thats like this.
Ever since ARR we have had a built in rotation for pretty much every single job, so its a fundemental aspect of the game that can't be removed, so healer dps kits would have a clearly designed pattern if the devs added them. Look at the current magical dps they're all rotation based.

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BLM was the most stimulating job in the game, followed by AST and MNK creatively speaking, and they had to butcher everything about it.

I was hesitant to ask you folks here but I'll jump.
What is keeping you hoping for 8.0 ? How do you cope ?

I'd love to be fully delulu and not be affected by the state of the game but I've poured so much into it. And now thanks to DT I've left and I fear I'll never come back, maybe I'm just looking for any reason to stay.
This is twice harder because I've been having so much fun on many other games since I stopped FFXIV, apologies for the small blogpost :P

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Originally Posted by Sharawiwi

What is keeping you hoping for 8.0 ? How do you cope ?

I'd love to be fully delulu and not be affected by the state of the game but I've poured so much into it. And now thanks to DT I've left and I fear I'll never come back, maybe I'm just looking for any reason to stay.
This is twice harder because I've been having so much fun on many other games since I stopped FFXIV, apologies for the small blogpost :P

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Me personally, I'm interested in Eureka 3, Beastmaster and maybe the deep dungeon besides that I don't really care about the expansion. I like Pictomancer and Red Mage but they aren't as fun as EW BLM, ShB SMN or ARR-SB SCH. The 90-100 job changes are by far the worst we have ever got in the game they are so dull and boring, so right now I am interested in systems that allow me to change the Job design to be more interesting. I don't expect much because I think the job design team is incompetent and need to be replaced or restructured but if Eureka and Beastmaster aren't fun I won't be staying around in DT for the entire time and will probably sink back into playing GW2 or other games.

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Originally Posted by Connor

I agree, but that doesn’t seem to be the general solution offered by the thread. The solution is ‘give healers more dps abilities but make them decision-based resource-costing irregularly timed nukes and dots and somehow so wholly optional that the normies will never be expected to use them (frankly I don’t see this situation ever existing in ffxiv lol).

Then as soon as someone mentions healing suddenly it’s
‘We can’t put healing requirements above what they are now or normies can’t handle it’
‘We can’t make healers heal because it’s impossible because game design so just delete a bunch of heals and turn them into dps’
‘Healers had more nukes in the battle system that was effectively a different one from what we have now therefore they should go back to that design from 8 years ago’

Outside of that however? They could give us 100 dps abilities and they could be the most powerful and flashy skills in existence; it would still be business as usual outside of savage. Just with a couple extra steps (that are supposed to be optional except nobody doing normal content has any excuse not to be dps’ing 100% of the time, so…)

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Part 1: It is entirely possible to give healers 'more dps abilities but make them wholly optional so normies aren't expected to use them'. DPS checks right now are tuned in such a way that allows a healer to drop multiple GCDs over the course of the fight. If a new action was added to a healer, with a potency higher than the filler spell (but only very slightly), the use of that action would be 'optional'. As an example, Glare 3 is currently 330p. If a new instantcast action was added with a 15s CD, and a potency of 350p, it's a gain to use it over Glare. But NOT using it would cost you 20p per 15s, or about 3.3p per GCD that it's off CD on average. On the flipside, purposely holding it to use for mobility in a point of the fight where you'd otherwise not be able to cast Glare, turns that 20p loss into a 350p GAIN, rewarding fight knowledge. 'Irregularly timed nukes and DOTs', I assume, refers to how people request things like SB DOTs for SCH, wherein Bio was 30s, Miasma was 24, etc. The reason for this is simple. You posted in a later post from this one about a 'belt rotation', of ABC DOT applications, and then CBA in sequence as they fall off, to refresh them. But having identical timers wouldn't fix much of anything, because it'd just be ABC every X seconds (in this case presumably 30s). It's the fact that the timers are staggered, the fact that sometimes two DOTs are requiring reapplication at the same time (and therefore a decision must be made about which to apply first as a higher priority), things like that, that mean the staggered timers are a more logical design decision. And as before, the total DOT potency for each of the DOTs need not be some '250% of your filler spell' value like it is currently, but instead a more moderate amount, such that forgetting to apply a DOT is punished very little.

You say you don't see how it could work in FFXIV. I beg to differ.

Part 2: The topic of 'healing increase' vs 'dps variety' is a tale as old as time, but the general gist of it is that additional DPS buttons can be made optional via careful potency balancing (as mentioned above), but requiring more healing output from the player is a binary. Either they have the skill to output that increased requirement, or they don't and get gated by the game. Personally, I would be fine with SE bumping the healing required, but I can't be certain that other players would be. So I think a decision that doesn't potentially alienate other players quite as heavily as 'I'm a new player and I literally cannot keep up with the incoming damage' might. Additionally, the 'increase healing required' method is entirely dependent on the content itself. Does EX roulette get increased? If not, the 'solution' doesn't solve the issue in some of the content that needs it most (lower level stuff like roulettes), and if so, the above 'game gatekeeps less skilled players' might occur. It's got risks attached no matter which way they try to do it. Also, I seem to recall about 4 weeks ago that people were cheering on the forums that 'stuff hits hard in EX roulette yay' because of the doll slams at the end of Strayborough, or the AOE spam pots at the end of Cactus City. Now we have raid gear coming in, and those raidwides tickle. Increasing 'healing required' is very gear dependent, and as soon as we get more gear, the challenge evaporates. Additionally, as SE adds more and more healing and mitigation options to non-healers, the 'increase healing required' approach becomes more and more neutered, as Tanks and DPS become more and more equipped to counteract such changes. More DPS variety, however, is gear-agnostic, content-agnostic and 'what is in my ally's toolkit'-agnostic.

Personally, I think the best way to go forward would be to add more DPS variety, and with the goodwill that buys, it buys the devteam time to assess if 'increase healing requirements' is a feasible path forward, and to start implementing it. But I'd expect that if they were to increase the healing required, it'd be something like 25% more, maximum. And that's not enough to actually affect how few GCDs we use in EX roulette, because we have so many more available to throw in, so I don't personally believe that 'increase healing required' can be the whole solution, only a part of one. As is probably the case with adding more DPS variety, we would likely need a combination of both approaches.

Part 3: Additional DPS abilities allow for more interesting interactions within our downtime gameplay. Take Misery for example. We can purposely hold off on using it on a dungeon boss, so that we have it ready to dump onto the next pack of mobs in the dungeon. The mere existence of the action gives us the choice, allows us to make that decision, of whether to use it on the boss, or to hold it and use it on the trash. Energy Drain, as much as some might dislike it, is another example. Without it, SCH's gameplay seems to just... fall apart completely (as was evident in SHB when they tried to remove it)

So, let's take a hypothetical. I previously have posted about a suggestion for WHM wherein it gains a new Job Gauge element. Just narrowing it down to the specific scenario of 'you are in a dungeon doing a trash pull', said Job Gauge would fill by casting Holy, be spent on an AOE GCD heal, and said AOE heal is damage neutral by upgrading Glare/Dia/Banish (new action) into Quake, Tornado and Flood (each being AOE with 50% falloff). By adding just one button (the AOE heal), it changes the potential amount of buttons you're pressing in AOE from one (Holy) to FIVE (Holy, AOE heal, Quake, Flood, Tornado). But the existence of the design allows the player some optional decisionmaking, even in something as 'brain-off' as a dungeon trash pull. Do they use the heal as soon as it's available, or hold it until the Tank is a bit lower on HP to maximise how much effectiveness they get from using that heal? What order do they press the Quake, Flood, Tornado buttons in? Will the trash actually live long enough for Tornado's DOT effect to fully tick? Would it be better to use a heal and then the following Quake/Flood/Tornado on this pack that is almost dead, or hold it until the next pack? Where should Holy be slotted in between Quake/Flood/Tornado, to maximise the Stun's effectiveness?

You're right on one thing: We don't need 100 DPS abilities that are 'the most powerful and flashy skills in existence'. We need one or two with a good design behind them, minimizing the amount of work required from the dev team, but maximising the 'effect' on our gameplay should we choose to interact with them. Rapture and Misery are just two buttons, but they completely revamped the way we look at healing as a WHM, while simultaneously allowing for decisionmaking like 'do I spend a Lily in downtime to keep my damage going even while I can't hit the boss (due to Misery's refund)' or 'do I spend a Lily here as a mobility option', versus choosing to hold onto the Lilies to use for their primary purpose (healing). So I would like to see one or two new buttons on each healer with that kind of impact on our gameplay. Especially on SGE, if Rapture/Misery can completely change how we look at GCD healing, I want to see changes to Kardia that completely change how we look at the 'deal damage to heal ally' paradigm because atm Kardia feels like such a well of untapped potential

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Originally Posted by Sharawiwi

I was hesitant to ask you folks here but I'll jump.
What is keeping you hoping for 8.0 ? How do you cope ?

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Prog, pretty much. The only time the Healer role's design feels like it actually matches the content it's played in, is early prog in Savage while you're not 100% on the mechanics. Recovering from mechanical failures, triaging people to try and see the next mechanic, etc. Once prog is over (as it now is) I basically just raidlog

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Originally Posted by Sharawiwi

BLM was the most stimulating job in the game, followed by AST and MNK creatively speaking, and they had to butcher everything about it.

I was hesitant to ask you folks here but I'll jump.
What is keeping you hoping for 8.0 ? How do you cope ?

I'd love to be fully delulu and not be affected by the state of the game but I've poured so much into it. And now thanks to DT I've left and I fear I'll never come back, maybe I'm just looking for any reason to stay.
This is twice harder because I've been having so much fun on many other games since I stopped FFXIV, apologies for the small blogpost :P

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I thought I would play this game until it shuts down but DT has irreparably changed how I feel about it. They ruined my character, my house, my favorite job, the story and even my computer's performance when running the game. All within one major patch. The things I looked forward to in upcoming patches and the things I enjoyed every time I logged in are no longer of the quality they used to be. I don't consider it my main game anymore, just a game I'm playing for now.

It's not my first rodeo. I quit WoW after I finished a big meta achievement I had been working on. Currently I'm working on reaching Gil cap but after that, who knows? I'm still waiting to see if they will fix the graphical update, viper and the MSQ in 7.1. If they don't, I don't see what reason there is to wait until 8.0. Healing is certainly not it. This role is not getting fixed. If the devs don't even understand what removing NG did to the mental load when playing viper, they simply cannot comprehend the problems with healers.

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Originally Posted by Sharawiwi

And now thanks to DT I've left and I fear I'll never come back, maybe I'm just looking for any reason to stay.
This is twice harder because I've been having so much fun on many other games since I stopped FFXIV, apologies for the small blogpost :P

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Why fear that you won't come back?

If it's no longer fun, it's no longer fun. Loyalty to a game is useless because games have no loyalty to the players, only to the money that players bring with them.

If you're having fun with those other games, then play them. Get an urge to peek back into FFXIV? There are plenty of content creators covering it. Take a look at what they're putting online at that time (within your spoiler tolerance) and see if it looks like it has changed to be more appealing to you or if you're better off continuing to play other games.

FFXIV is unlikely to disappear any time soon unless SE totally strips its budget because they're having too many problems with their other projects. Which would be very stupid on their part. They should be investing more into FFXIV to keep more players interested. The more active players they have, the greater the revenue stream they'll have to split with other projects. Neglecting the successful projects is a very good way to kill off a company.

It definitely makes me think I should go back to retro games. Life is easier when you don't get patches. You know what you're playing and you can accept it or leave. With patches, the game I love could be gone a day later. I felt that way for years about fighting games before I quit playing new ones. Maybe MMORPGs are the same. But even in FGs I feel more listened to because there are smaller ones. When a game is so popular like 14 it definitely feels like all that matters is money.

It doesn't mean I don't think 14 won't ever be appealing to me again but even before DT dropped I thought that maybe I'll enjoy this game when it's on life support more than now. When it's truly in its QoL era and we're done with trying to shove out new expansions. That I'm used to late stage MMO life from the 20+ years of RuneScape and that I should just go check out FFXI until FFXIV is just.. done.

I was hoping with DT that maybe I could get a taste of the new expansion launch experience that I missed with EW and ShB but ehh yeah no.

If nothing else, I suppose, I look forward to true end game BLU content one day.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

Even though your post was directed as Snarknado, I think you asked a great question. I'll paraphrase it. Where are we on a scale between 1-10 regarding healers? 1 being you don't like the current state of healers but still heal. 10 being you have changed jobs and never healing again.

I'd say I'm a 2. I'm participating in #FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE; but, enjoy being healer enough that I'm leveling white mage to heal friends and FC members.

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Finally getting around to adding to this one.

I’d say I’m at a 4 or so. I’m halfheartedly leveling the healers to get a feel for them. Only have WHM and SGE up now. Not really interested in rushing in to level AST now, and I’ll level SCH through SMN whenever I get around to that.

Currently been devoting more of my time to learning tanks more. Never had much affinity for them, but DRK’s been a fun challenge so far. Going to level more of the tanks now since my interest in healers has waned and I’ve leveled the major DPS that I enjoy.

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Originally Posted by LynxDubh

Finally getting around to adding to this one.

I’d say I’m at a 4 or so. I’m halfheartedly leveling the healers to get a feel for them. Only have WHM and SGE up now. Not really interested in rushing in to level AST now, and I’ll level SCH through SMN whenever I get around to that.

Currently been devoting more of my time to learning tanks more. Never had much affinity for them, but DRK’s been a fun challenge so far. Going to level more of the tanks now since my interest in healers has waned and I’ve leveled the major DPS that I enjoy.

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This is the first expansion where I might not level a second healer. It depends on if a barrier healer would be better for my FC runs than a reactive healer. I love the lore of scholars and wish the gameplay matched the job description.

Hell or High Water! :)

I started playing tanks (GNB) in Endwalker and it surprised me have fun it is. There's just something about being the guy in front. Tank anxiety be damned. Dive into those mobs, pop a mitigation, and start swinging! LOL

Having the perspective of a healer will make you a better tank. Every would be tank should have a side job of one of the healers and vice versa. The insights gained make you a better player all around.

I would say AST is really cool for leveling, very easy to handle Mt Gulg type pulls :)

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Originally Posted by sharknado

I would say AST is really cool for leveling, very easy to handle Mt Gulg type pulls :)

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I've been burned a bit too many times with AST. I fell in love with it in HW and mained it until ShB butchered the card system and stripped out Time Dilation. The healing system is good outside of a couple of warts like Horoscope. But, none of the new skills interest me in the slightest. AST was the one Healer that really did not need an extra follow up attack since it should busy itself with the card system. And Sun Sign is such a boring tool.

It just feels like they went halfway into a card rework and went, "that's good enough". So I'm not excited to try it again. I might eat my words later and DT AST might spark joy again for me. But I'm not optimistic.

I thought the cards were dumb in ShB when I first picked up AST but I liked the movement. Then everyone's cast times got reduced.

Lmao.

Well, more heals 4 me :P

Greetz o/

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Originally Posted by Moerser

Well, more heals 4 me :P

Greetz o/

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Your queues went from instant to……..instant while AIN still biases tanks by design and you are still playing the dumpster fire that is the healer role

I’m so jealous of how much extra benefit this is providing to you

Works 4 me.

Greetz o/

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Originally Posted by Moerser

Works 4 me.

Greetz o/

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Great you are bragging about literally nothing changing for you

What an achievement

"braggin"...was i?

I got a hundred spells, a hundred deals
guy, I'm from Limsa, Limsa
I got a semi-automatic that heals
Next time if you martial law, you talk
I got a hundred cures, a hundred clips
guy, I'm from limsa, limsa
I got a semi-automatic that spits
Next time if you talk, you martial law
And I know

Greetz o/

So is this strike working? My dpd queues have remained at the sub 5 or 7m marks pretty consistently.

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Originally Posted by Psycofang

So is this strike working? My dpd queues have remained at the sub 5 or 7m marks pretty consistently.

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Where? I consistently have to wait upwards of 30 minutes for a simple leveling roulette.

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Originally Posted by GartredZW

Where? I consistently have to wait upwards of 30 minutes for a simple leveling roulette.

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My DPS Expert Roulettes have been at about 5 minutes. 24 man raid roulette for DPS is usually short too.

If you do your levelling roulette near reset it's not too long either.

Also remember there are only 4 tanks and 4 healers, but now 13 DPS jobs to level. Disproportionate need for levelling DPS even accounting for the roulette taking 2 of them.

I finished leveling all my dpses about 3 weeks ago. During those dungeon spams and daily roulettes, queues are mostly around 15m. Peak hours usually drop to 10m or so. Outside that, it may reach 30m but that's a less common occurrence.

Nevertheless, Idk why 'new (to the thread) folks' keep coming in to bring up their DF queue experience when that's not what the strike even trying to affect directly. :rolleyes::confused: Get a new material already smh.

This thread proves no one reads anything but the title, if that, and it owns

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Originally Posted by Moerser

"braggin"...was i?

I got a hundred spells, a hundred deals
guy, I'm from Limsa, Limsa
I got a semi-automatic that heals
Next time if you martial law, you talk
I got a hundred cures, a hundred clips
guy, I'm from limsa, limsa
I got a semi-automatic that spits
Next time if you talk, you martial law
And I know

Greetz o/

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Ha! I like it. Well done!

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Originally Posted by gllt

This thread proves no one reads anything but the title, if that, and it owns

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So true. I don't see what's so hard about reading the first few posts to understand what's being talked about.

At least the uninformed or trolling posts keep bumping the thread. So, that's a plus.

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Originally Posted by GartredZW

Where? I consistently have to wait upwards of 30 minutes for a simple leveling roulette.

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Are you normally playing the game about the time you made this post? Because that would explain long queue waits. It's very late night/early morning for NA. There aren't that many players online compared to how many would be online 6 hours earlier or 12 hours later.

I tend to have a roughly 8-16 minute wait for various roulettes on DPS. I typically play in the evening in NA.

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Originally Posted by sharknado

I would say AST is really cool for leveling, very easy to handle Mt Gulg type pulls :)

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Man, I'm so conflicted about posts like these. On the one hand, I'm genuinely glad people enjoy the job. On the other hand, it makes me sad because the rework took away everything I loved about it to the point that I won't even level it.

Btw: Mt. Gulg was always easy. Synnastry is a powerful tool many people forget they have.

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Originally Posted by gllt

This thread proves no one reads anything but the title, if that, and it owns

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Pretty sure there's a study or something that a majority only ever bothering to read headlines

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

Man, I'm so conflicted about posts like these. On the one hand, I'm genuinely glad people enjoy the job. On the other hand, it makes me sad because the rework took away everything I loved about it to the point that I won't even level it.

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The cards got dumb down. And they don't adjust in dungeons when you get 2x ranged or 2x melee sadly.

Each passing day I hope for a HW/SB private server to pop up so I can play old SCH and BRD again.

I also get maybe a 10 - 20 minute average queue time as DPS for leveling and Main Scenario. This is assuming it's during the more player busy times. If the average time rose up, it only seems to be a little bit. Doing the hunt board marks while waiting definitely helps with the wait. The two new DPS are in very good spots now so there will still be a surge of parties having them.

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

Each passing day I hope for a HW/SB private server to pop up so I can play old SCH and BRD again.

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I had never even considered the possibility but... That would be kinda interesting!

FF14 private servers would be amazing. All the care we see given to other third party mods but spread across the whole game

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

FF14 private servers would be amazing. All the care we see given to other third party mods but spread across the whole game

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It probably wouldn't be impossible to make one, but they'd kind of have to manually recreate most of the game... Including NPCs, and all the enemies AI scripts.

I'd be super down to experience HW in its og state

This feels like a dangerous topic lmao

Moving on from that, it just seems weird that the level 50 we experiance now and the level 50 experienced in arr is completely different. Level 70 in stromblood get like the end for many jobs, but now it feels oddly sparse. Maybe that's the normal experience for mmos.

No thanks for servers that bring back old gameplay.

Make the actual live game the way it used to be instead, and more for healers.

Everytime someone asks Yoshi P. about bringing 1.0 servers back, he dies a little inside.

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Originally Posted by Gunz_Zbestest

Everytime someone asks Yoshi P. about bringing 1.0 servers back, he dies a little inside.

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The discussion wasn't about 1.0 servers - that's unanimously a bad decision. It would be 2.0 or 3.0 servers, essentially ARR or HW era.

It would be an intriguing experiment to see how the community receives the game from that era, as it mostly had many of the problems we face solved (that is not to suggest that it didn't have it's own larger issues which have since been solved by the modern version).