Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

[QUOTE=Loggos;6509745]I'm glad you brought these points up because I see it in a similar way.

I don't actually agree with the thread's premise that Wuk ruined DT.

Imo she isn't a bad character in principle. The idea of an unprepared royal heir trying to shoulder a burden far too big her for in order to help her people, and then maturing into this role over the course of a satisfying journey is a compelling premise in my eyes.
(And I think she has a very cool and well-conceived visual character design, too.)

If written well this could have been a really fun story.


I think Disney did a movie that sounds like this....The Lion King ??

Young lion cub not ready to rule -> Escapes fate until beaten by monkey stick -> Comes back and defeats the raid boss.

I'd also like to add this is the first expansion where going to the Inn feels like an actual relaxation for me, the actual player too. Then Lamat knocks on the door and all dreams are shattered.

I'm going to be sick...

The scene after she succeeds with Koana coming into your ream reads like a bad fanfic where Self Insert OC Do Not Steal has their brother check on the actual canonical MC to confirm feelings of closeness. I mean the line is literally "You have become someone irreplaceable to her. As her brother, I acknowledge that with no little jealousy"

That reads like a child wrote it about their OC falling in love with Harry Potter, or WoL in this case, and it's actually gross and I want to scrub myself down to the BONE after feeling that absolute excrement poured onto me as the player. Absolutely vile... I wouldn't even want a replacement for her. I'd rather she go and leave me healthier for it, the cancerous lump she has turned out to be.

I'm not normally this harsh but damn that was bad

First, on the lofty heights of Mt. Gulg where stood The Seat of Sacrifice, there came Emet-Selch and lo he stole away G'raha from us -- for a while at least and we did not see him for several quests.

Then, in the deepest of the Tempest, where Anamnesis Anyder lies, there came Elidibus and lo he stole away Y'shtola from us -- for a while at least, and we did not see her for several quests.

If anyone can find one of the unaccounted for Ascians, could you let them know we have a new cat?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eyrilona

First, on the lofty heights of Mt. Gulg where stood The Seat of Sacrifice, there came Emet-Selch and lo he stole away G'raha from us -- for a while at least and we did not see him for several quests.

Then, in the deepest of the Tempest, where Anamnesis Anyder lies, there came Elidibus and lo he stole away Y'shtola from us -- for a while at least, and we did not see her for several quests.

If anyone can find one of the unaccounted for Ascians, could you let them know we have a new cat?

---

We do still have Gaia... we certainly can ask her for a favour...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amecoeur

We do still have Gaia... we certainly can ask her for a favour...

---

We'll put that Wuk in a box, then put that box inside of another box, and then we'll mail that box to Gaia, and when it arrives, she'll smash it with her hammer!

It's brilliant brilliant brilliant I tell you! Genius I say!

https://youtu.be/5Cx7jzq2Bx4

I've never seen the XIV fanbase so united like this since Heavensward

Brings a tear to my eye

the endsinger was right, Wuk is pure despair.. everyone back to the goth birbs

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

the endsinger was right, Wuk is pure despair.. everyone back to the goth birbs

---

With the universe essentially being infinite, she almost certainly came across another planet that had its own Wuk Lamat. I'm certain that's what pushed her over the edge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MissKobayashi

I think this is what I can agree with, her character itself isn't entirely the issue. I believe it's the pacing and writing itself. Being at the level 96-ish part of the story I think watching her grow into her role has only solidified my fondness for her. Honestly I think the characters with the least amount of depth come from the other claimants. They just sort of throw a highly generic trope at them that drives their entire personality regardless of how absolutely insane their actions might seem to make the point. Even with some of them having revealed their reasons, it just feels like a stretch IMO.

---

I would like to echo this. At around 95 or 96, I think she hit the climax of her character arc and she was finally maturing! She just needs some more help (from someone not me) to shore up her inexperience and knowledge, and she can be a pretty decent leader.
We went off to America (with someone who wasn't her) and I had a pretty good impression of her.
And then she came crashing back into the story and I felt sick to my stomach.

German speaking Wuk sounds like ether a German dub of some anime targeted for kids or a German cartoon character.

And walking into the new area? felt like I walked into a Disney resort not an Incan Aztec part of the game world, first time I'll ever have to mute town bgm...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DiscoDuck

German speaking Wuk sounds like ether a German dub of some anime targeted for kids or a German cartoon character.

And walking into the new area? felt like I walked into a Disney resort not an Incan Aztec part of the game world, first time I'll ever have to mute town bgm...

---

The sheer lack of Yok Huy ruins in each zone continues to bother me more and more from this supposed Empire that is younger than Gelmorra, Amdapor, Mhach, Nym.

I said in other posts that i do like the new zones looks, but everything exists in them to service the MSQ, There's nothing else going on in them outside of MSQ from a landmark perspective, CBU3 did a great job in ARR of having mysterious ruins lying around they could later flesh out in lore or use for content and they just seem to have stopped doing that entirely, the vast majority of dungeons and places exist off map now, such a shame as i think things like Pharos Sirius, Amdapor Keep, the flying Mhach ship, PotD, Ishgard gates, All the entrances to Binding Coils, Nym ruins in La Noscea, etc etc etc, were all fantastic motivaters in speculation and interest and hype when we finally go to learn more about them and go inside them.

Dawntrail doesnt seem too interested in presenting any mystery or motivation outside of the MSQ revolving around Wuk Lamat, Even the Yok Huy ruins we do venture into ultimately exist for the purpose of Wuk Lamats trials. The world building of this new continent is exceptionally weak, even the wars between the Mamool Ja and Cat people in Yak'tel are told to us that they have been going on for a long ass time, but it doesnt really feel like it.

Even Erenville refused to refer to Wuk as a friend, we all know why now..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ReynTime

I've never seen the XIV fanbase so united like this since Heavensward

Brings a tear to my eye

---

They made Wuk Lamat such an indomitable leader that even in hatred she unites communities (in this case against her lol)

does square have a policy of only one person allowed to speak per expansion? cause as far as i've made it in the story i dont recall alisaie saying anything at all, and krile only speaks when spoken too, and alphys writer has fallen off more than tyrion lannister when they ran out of book to script from...

yes wuk sucks..

but the complete deletion of other characters voice and personality to prop her up as this fake "interesting" only makes it so much worse..

still wondering why we are here or what she needed us for, bout to go for the 3rd tablet and still have done zero, have killed a grand total of 6 enemy's spread between 3 quests, im level 92, and am not even cofidently a gopher in the quest, i exist to watch this other character be "tHe BeStEsT EvErAh" at least that what its telling me but failing on every level to actually convey..

they say "show dont tell" but i would take ether at this point.

So they'll address Viper and picto getting nerfs "based on player feedback" but say nothing about the overwhelming amount of feedback related to the MSQ or Wookie. Where do I gotta go so my feedback is actually heard?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lieri

I'd also like to add this is the first expansion where going to the Inn feels like an actual relaxation for me, the actual player too. Then Lamat knocks on the door and all dreams are shattered.

---

She's so involved in every facet of the MSQ that she won't even let our characters have a nap without interjecting.



I just realised, after reading this thread, that there was so many threads wondering what the Erenville / Wuk Lamat connection was and why they bickered like children. And in reality;

They share next to nothing in history except that the Dawn Servant brought a baby Wuk Lamat to see Erenville's family one time and that's about it. There's no familial connection, no true friendship, Erenville isn't related to the succession. Thoughts go out to the people hoping Erenville was gonna get some deep cut lore. lol

I dare say Dawntrail is worse than 1.0.
Never thought I'd type these words. I don't even know if I'll finish zone 6, anything with LaIdiot makes me want to bash my computer screen into a thousand pieces.
If I didn't pay for this and the month, I'd of quit by now, but maybe just maybe I'll finish this dumpster fire so I can actually play the game and not listen to that annoying loudmouth anything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lieri

I'd also like to add this is the first expansion where going to the Inn feels like an actual relaxation for me, the actual player too. Then Lamat knocks on the door and all dreams are shattered.

---

To add to that, in Shadowbringers I was really getting in to my character arc through the whole thing. Every time someone would tell me to rest, I'd imagine my WoL getting more and more fed up with this whole situation, wishing it to be over. For him to not be forced to bear such a burden but persevering all the same, calling back to the sentiment in the Dark Knight questline. I managed to give my own character a satisfying and compelling arc all by being subtly nudged by the game itself, and the fact that I actually didn't want to rest. I wanted to keep going with the story. Meanwhile, Wuk Lamat has her arc completely spelled out multiple times, and I still can't bring myself to care about any of this.

Something I realized about this is when the feedback is story based, SE and CBU3 are slow enough to change course that more than likely nothing we say now will bear any changes until 7.2 or 7.3 at the earliest.

Unpopular mechanics they can move away from in a 1-2 patch time frame, potency numbers they can fix with a 1-2 week turnaround, but the pipeline for the MSQ is so heavy with writers, art assets, VA booking, etc, that they're probably locked in for a whole expansion.
We'll see if they acknolewdge the feedback, or even make any changes in the next 2 years to be more WoL centric in the story as opposed to just making us be set dressing, but I'm doubtful 7.1-7.3 will be any different.

Are you guys prepared for the continuation of Wuk's Grand Adventure! in 7.1? :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Something I realized about this is when the feedback is story based, SE and CBU3 are slow enough to change course that more than likely nothing we say now will bear any changes until 7.2 or 7.3 at the earliest.

Unpopular mechanics they can move away from in a 1-2 patch time frame, potency numbers they can fix with a 1-2 week turnaround, but the pipeline for the MSQ is so heavy with writers, art assets, VA booking, etc, that they're probably locked in for a whole expansion.
We'll see if they acknolewdge the feedback, or even make any changes in the next 2 years to be more WoL centric in the story as opposed to just making us be set dressing, but I'm doubtful 7.1-7.3 will be any different.

---

Yeah this is usually how it goes, but i would warn them that they might wanna go into a lil more panic mode about this, I think there's a decent chunk of people who are bothered but will suffer through Wuk cause they love FFXIV, but if 7.1 drops and it revolves around Wuk, those people are gunna cancel subs and probably not come back til 7.3/4 or even 8.0

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZodaSoda

Yeah this is usually how it goes, but i would warn them that they might wanna go into a lil more panic mode about this, I think there's a decent chunk of people who are bothered but will suffer through Wuk cause they love FFXIV, but if 7.1 drops and it revolves around Wuk, those people are gunna cancel subs and probably not come back til 7.3/4 or even 8.0

---

I can tell you right now that I will not be renewing my sub this month and will be watching the MSQ patch cutscenes online, at least until the terrible writing/Wuk Lamat comes and ruins it again. I see no reason to pay a $15 sub just to experience one new dungeon and trial when the MSQ is this bad.

Maybe I'll come back at the end of the post patches when there's a decent chunk of content to get into.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

does square have a policy of only one person allowed to speak per expansion? cause as far as i've made it in the story i dont recall alisaie saying anything at all, and krile only speaks when spoken too, and alphys writer has fallen off more than tyrion lannister when they ran out of book to script from...

yes wuk sucks..

but the complete deletion of other characters voice and personality to prop her up as this fake "interesting" only makes it so much worse..

still wondering why we are here or what she needed us for, bout to go for the 3rd tablet and still have done zero, have killed a grand total of 6 enemy's spread between 3 quests, im level 92, and am not even cofidently a gopher in the quest, i exist to watch this other character be "tHe BeStEsT EvErAh" at least that what its telling me but failing on every level to actually convey..

they say "show dont tell" but i would take ether at this point.

---

I think the biggest failure for me was when Y‘sthola was calling Wuk Lamat so she could tell us to come to her.
Like, why not call us ourself? We have known each other for a long time now.
It’s almost like the writers had to reach a word count for Wuk Lamat or there would have been no bonus for them.

It almost seemed like the scions were showing us away from them.
„Hey you go with Wuk Lamat so we can do the investigation here“
„Hey WE go to the hotel. You can walk with Wuk Lamat.“
Is there a surprise birthday party for me?


You know who I feel the most sorry for? The Graha Tia fans.
They are not allowed to call him Raha after years but call Wuk Lamati after hours.

I used to hate G'raha before this expac, but every time I was left alone with him in DT I was so happy to finally, finally have time away from Wuk Lamat. Thanks, Wuk!

Don’t forget your daily roulette: Talk to Wuk Lamat.

I personally don’t care if the characters are bad. I care for the gameplay. Why did we have to start over by character building in the most boring way possible? Cook food, craft a saddle, find pieces for some festival idol. They had infinite possibilities and they chose those things. Are we going to go through getting to know every new person half the expansion every expansion? I can’t stomach these chore objectives when I’m playing a more fast pace game like Guild Wars 2 that exceeds in combat and story. I had to stop playing FF14 because I couldn’t take it in the first 2 areas with the lamas. Then had to force myself and finally I dropped her off at child daycare throne where I can get to the interesting story at least.

Big missed opportunity for us the player to choose a promise and make it into a competition that involved anything goes. The main story could’ve involved stealing, killing, joining bandits to get our promise to the throne. In a way that no one important dies of course. While we look for the golden city. Then the players city would change based on who one. Better than what we got.

Hope the next expansion they stop with trying to cash in with people’s emotion gimmick and character building with friendship/feelings.

Build better quests that don’t involve cutscenes every step. Why can’t the characters just talk at the location when you prompt them. I don’t need a reaction cutscene filled with nodding and facial expressions when they speak and jester without cutscenes.

No more boring chore quests involving picking up object over there and bringing them back as main story. Just have my character run back in the cutscene after picking up object.

The poor quality objectives in the quests really brought this expansion to a halt for me. I was thinking of getting a refund. Wasn’t even going to buy this expansion after zeros tipping fiasco for 10 patchiest in a row that left a bad presentation for future story content.

The quality in fates, aether current or open world in general has always been a D- compared to other games. Those things need to change. Aether currents needs a revamp. Fates need to be like Bozja. I don’t care if there are 2 Bozja fates in each map. I rather have quality not quantity. The leveling system in Bozja was great where we could increase our map level by continuing to play there. Bring that depth to dungeons and open world. Maps need something Guild Wars 2 has, exploration objectives, sights to see, treasure to find. These maps might as well be white empty rooms because you’re wasting your time making them when there is nothing holding us there. You walk to any map in Guild Wars 2 and still to this day people are doing events and achievements. I rant so much about this game because I care and want it to grow in quality not quantity. Give us depth in RPG.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Voidmage

You know who I feel the most sorry for? The Graha Tia fans.
They are not allowed to call him Raha after years but call Wuk Lamati after hours.

---

The English dub annoys me for this since, apparently, in the JP dialogue we call Y'Shtola "Shtola". Like we are actually friends and are close to one another. In English we still refer to her as Y'Shtola implying that she doesn't consider us close enough for that honour. Nor G'Raha but Krile can. They all go on about how trustworthy an *ally* we are and stalwart we are.

But are we even friends? lol English translation team says no but we can have Wuk Lamat at least!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Something I realized about this is when the feedback is story based, SE and CBU3 are slow enough to change course that more than likely nothing we say now will bear any changes until 7.2 or 7.3 at the earliest.

Unpopular mechanics they can move away from in a 1-2 patch time frame, potency numbers they can fix with a 1-2 week turnaround, but the pipeline for the MSQ is so heavy with writers, art assets, VA booking, etc, that they're probably locked in for a whole expansion.
We'll see if they acknolewdge the feedback, or even make any changes in the next 2 years to be more WoL centric in the story as opposed to just making us be set dressing, but I'm doubtful 7.1-7.3 will be any different.

---

I'm horrified that if anything you're being generous. As you say, the MSQ can't be rebuilt mid-expansion, we are stuck with this garbage until 8.0, maybe 7.5. For the next 2 whole years people are just going to have to find their own fun in the mechanical aspects of the game, I dunno, I'll grind dungeon achievements for 2 years or something ...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZodaSoda

Yeah this is usually how it goes, but i would warn them that they might wanna go into a lil more panic mode about this, I think there's a decent chunk of people who are bothered but will suffer through Wuk cause they love FFXIV, but if 7.1 drops and it revolves around Wuk, those people are gunna cancel subs and probably not come back til 7.3/4 or even 8.0

---

Oh, for sure. The patch better be good, and not only in terms of Wuk Lamat. I am still not confident about this whole "new story arc" thing. I see a few loose ends, but I cannot say that any of them are THAT compelling for me to want to see them next expansion or whatever. If the next patch doesn't manage to hook me after Dawntrail failed? Why would I be subscribing again? All the content that gets released between expansions is easily caught up on in the span of... a month or two at most of casual gaming. Something I could do once the next expansion is on the horizon (if I even feel like playing that).

The devs gladly avoid criticism for outdated quest design, lacking world exploration, lacking content difficulty, etc etc, all through the good old "well it's a story MMOJRPG, what do you expect?" Can't have their cake and eat it too.

This IS a story MMORPG. For better or worse. If I wanted to run dungeons, or any combat content really, I'd play the other big MMO. The one that has classes where you press more than 3 buttons. If I wanted to do PvP I'd play yet another MMO. Without compelling story, FFXIV wouldn't be my MMO of choice.

Wuk Lamat better stay in her country and not keep following us around or I swear to god

I think the worldbuilding is a huge problem too. Original part of Eorzea we now know to be located somewhere around what is Africa on Earth, but that did not influence its design, it's a fairly uniquely laid out fantasy land with its own visual flairs and an assortment of cultures. Garlemald was a non-descript evil Empire so it had to be Rome, Russia with maybe a tinge of WW2 Germany. Well alright. Far East was oddly pan-Asian but still within expectations of a fantasy world. For some reason, Americas had to be semi-realistically represented - here's Machu Pichu, here's Texas (with cowboys) which from Yoshida's own words required "sensitivity consultants" to make sure it's being properly represented. But, huh? Why are you bringing real world representation into an ostensibly made up world all of a sudden? Why is the game in which people of various shapes and creeds have come together several times is now lecturing me on how banding together and accepting one another is good, actually? I heard some suggest that the role of WoL and scions was consciously toned down to avoid "white savior" syndrome, that's why the story is 90% Wuk and 10% Erenville. But... are you sure WoL is white? They don't hail from fantasy Europe and you can customize them to be a person of color, meanwhile a lot of people in Tural who aren't a birdman, a Hrothgar or a Mamool Ja is white with some exceptions. How did this happen?

You can't tell me Western diversity cultists aren't influencing the game in a big way, it is plain to see.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rolder50

Wuk Lamat better stay in her country and not keep following us around or I swear to god

---

"I've decided that to best serve Tuliyollal I need to go abroad and get to know as many people as I can! Only then can I fulfill my duty as the Vow of Resolve like Papa wanted and make every one happy!"

Look forward to it. :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rolder50

Wuk Lamat better stay in her country and not keep following us around or I swear to god

---

I enjoyed/accepted her up to the 2nd trial. after the 2nd trial I was like...don't you need to go home and get back to work? you just got a new job...go do it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rolder50

Wuk Lamat better stay in her country and not keep following us around or I swear to god

---

Build the wall. Make Eorzea great again.

It's obvious certain "consultants" meddled with the writing.

Calling it now. Wuk Lamat will be part of the normal and 24 party raids.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ryaduera

I'm going to be sick...

The scene after she succeeds with Koana coming into your ream reads like a bad fanfic where Self Insert OC Do Not Steal has their brother check on the actual canonical MC to confirm feelings of closeness. I mean the line is literally "You have become someone irreplaceable to her. As her brother, I acknowledge that with no little jealousy"

That reads like a child wrote it about their OC falling in love with Harry Potter, or WoL in this case, and it's actually gross and I want to scrub myself down to the BONE after feeling that absolute excrement poured onto me as the player. Absolutely vile... I wouldn't even want a replacement for her. I'd rather she go and leave me healthier for it, the cancerous lump she has turned out to be.

I'm not normally this harsh but damn that was bad

---

When Koana told me she wanted me in her administration, I shuddered. When she told me I could call her by the name her family calls her, I thought "Wait, isn't Lomotil an anti-diarrhea medication?" but then I also thought, "Uh, no. I've known you for like 3 days. Not only are we not like family, I'm finding you a tad creepy, not gonna lie. Thank god this is the first time '...' is available to use." Then, when she said she wanted me to stay with her in Tuliyollal... No? Just no. I AM NOT INTERESTED, LITTLE SUN.

I...thought you were exaggerating. Then she broke through the space time continuum to continue forcing herself into the limelight..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mihai899

It's obvious certain "consultants" meddled with the writing.

---

I don't think they did. It would be way more obvious if they did. The story is bad, but it's not awkwardly filled with political or ideological messages.
If you wanted to come up with a thesis for the story, it's that understanding leads the way to peace. And I'd hardly call that politically motivated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GartredZW

I don't think they did. It would be way more obvious if they did. The story is bad, but it's not awkwardly filled with political or ideological messages.
If you wanted to come up with a thesis for the story, it's that understanding leads the way to peace. And I'd hardly call that politically motivated.

---

Yeah I think its more like furries got control somewhere in the team

That amount of forceful screentime for Wuk is not normal :confused: