The growing entitlement issues of the casuals

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Originally Posted by Xeno

First things first, Casuals do not = hardcore players. Even Yoshi agrees.

So what's the deal? Why is it that casual players feel that they should have the same awesome gear that the hardcore players have? This is absolutely beyond me. The more effort you put into something the greater the reward.

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couldnt agree with you more, this is what will make me not want to play casual getting same rewards as hardcore

The problem with FFXI's casual reform was that they always treated casual reform like second class appeasement. Extremely low drop rates. Nerfed alternatives. Sloppy seconds.

Huh uh. Doesn't work like that.

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Originally Posted by Jeronlmo

Why do you think nothing in the game should take more than your 30min's of play time to do, you have access to everything, nobody stopped casuals from doing Ein/Salvage/ZNM's in 11, though few did. HNM's are there, ive seen KB/faf/nid walking around tones of times, some servers like mine had HNM's before i got into it and the major HNM ls's basically destroyed eachother which lead to HNM walking around for years only being killed maby once a month.

The access is there, casuals would simply rather waste time.

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Ok so let's just say something is 3-4 hours to do and complete. Is it 3-4 hours of fighting through a horde of mobs that have the skills to effectively turn the tide and crush you?

However, is it 3-4 hours of standing around doing nothing praying some straggler doesn't come along the last sec and steal the mob you have been camping for days...

I'm hardcore and I would rather get an actual challenge instead of wasting my time when I should be having fun. If I wanted to stand around doing nothing I would chill outside irl.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Ah the lovely habit of resorting to strawman arguments when one runs out of things to say.
No one here asked for instant "YOU WIN" content. So you may want to avoid minsconstruing and misrepresenting positions that you evidently cannot counter in their original form and content.

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Don't waste your time on that guy's posts, Abriael. Notice how he just created his account yesterday, and 100% of his posts are either in this thread or that other thread that deals with the same thing?

By the time I reached endgame levels in FFXI, real life forced me to spend way less time playing. Even though I had no chance at getting the gear since I couldn't even show up often enough to earn points, I still tagged along for HNM/Gods/Kings/etc. because I enjoyed the battles. It was never about the gear.

Those of you making the arguement that "Casuals only want an easy button that gives them everything" still have yet to provide any physical evidence proving this theory.

Wow... really?

Even on the supposed most "difficult" mobs in abyssea that you can duo, that drop the "rarest" items, its usually 50% if you proc it. (if not higher than 50%)

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Originally Posted by Kazimir

It's an experience many players have. How do you think the stigma got attached to casual players? I certainly didn't spread it around myself. If the majority of bad players were hardcore then they would be the one's with the stigma.

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It's always better to talk only for yourself. "many players" is quite generic, and doesn't add any solidity to a theory.
The "casual stigma" simply comes from the usual habit of gamers to spite playstyles different than their own.

Then dont do HNM's standing around for 3hrs, go do ein for 30min's / twice a week. Solved your problem.

HNM's were for speed, the 21-24hr respawn, 3hr wait, was there to slow us down some.

Why start another thread on this crap. Some of you have some barbaric views on what should be hardcore content. The same thing is being pointed out to you and you refuse to address it.

You think that MMOs should have a caste system. Guess what? That's not what sells. No one is going to look to the game and say, "Wow, look at all of that unnecessary hoop jumping I'll need to complete in order to be unique! Sign. Me. UP!"

This view is only for sad and broken people who have nothing else going for them so they crave a time sink to fill the void. Get a life, please.

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Originally Posted by Jeronlmo

Wow... really?

Even on the supposed most "difficult" mobs in abyssea that you can duo, that drop the "rarest" items, its usually 50% if you proc it. (if not higher than 50%)

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Abyssea is one of the many ways they are trying to patch a flawed gaming design that was noticed by the world when WoW was released. It was obvious back then that XI would get that treatment.

However, I don't see how that holds a place in this discussion.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

The problem with FFXI's casual reform was that they always treated casual reform like second class appeasement. Extremely low drop rates. Nerfed alternatives. Sloppy seconds.

Huh uh. Doesn't work like that.

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^To true.

What made FFXI great unlike most MMO's was you had to earn your crap, it may of took time, but when you got it, it was awesome. For this they appeased casual players by making things easier to get, like a lot of people said casual =/= easier. To a majority of casual players to my knowledge is they just want to have the ability to get the same stuff, which is fair and should be the case. However, lowering drop rates, making things easier is not the way. There are other methods SE can take up.