Here we go again

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

No - they ate a circle-sword.

(all edge, no point)

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The point is when does it stop? When you get invincible mode? Then what about people whose fingers fell off and they can't hit W do we then get a fully automated visual novel dungeon system?

Someone mentioned WOW follower dungeons and delvs but they still have mechanics and deaths like any trust dungeons. People in here want everything fine tunned for specifically them and are using disingenuous examples to try and prove why they're right and deserve cheat codes.

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Originally Posted by Bitmoar

OK so again, how should content be tuned? What's easy for OP might be impossible for someone else, so what should the devs do? If you guys just want an invincibility mode with trusts and all solo duties, where no input beyond moving your character (if that) is needed, and an option to skip all non trust trials, just say that. But even then, I'm sure there are people out there who wouldn't be able to manage that for whatever reason. Should SE provide a nurse to those people?

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Nobody asked for an invincibility mode or a nurse... what people are asking for is functional accessibility. That means systems like Trusts working as intended, with reasonable fail-safes for players who struggle. It’s not about removing all challenge it’s about making sure the tools meant to support solo or disabled players actually do their job.

And yes, difficulty tuning is complex. But that’s exactly why scaleable systems exist in other MMOs like WoW’s delves or story mode raids to complete the story. They let players engage at their own level without blocking progression. FFXIV already has a solo-friendly design in many areas, so improving Trusts to better support that isn’t some radical demand.

Mocking people for needing support doesn’t make you right. It just makes the community feel less safe for those who need it most. And that's what games should be. A safe place to enjoy after a long day at work or at a time when life is rough in all areas. Disabled people deal with enough in their lives, do they really need to get crapped on here too? Just be a decent person. It's not hard.

Other people have people clear things for them too? That's really comforting to hear. I felt so guilty not being able to do CT.

Having a time convincing my one friend to come back to clear Endsinger- because it's undersize roadblocked-... Seat of Sacrifice scared me stiff. Never again. TvT;

Because a few people have stated that mechanics come too fast, it got me thinking, how fast do they actually come out? I recorded myself doing the second boss with trusts and done some rough timings on the mechanics.

Dismemberment
These are the saws that come in pairs and go across the arena in a straight line. The saws appear after the cast bar is complete. Once the first set appears, it takes ~5 seconds for that set to go off, followed by the other set.

Peal of Judgement
These are the lightning lines that slowly go across the arena. From spawning in, it takes 2 seconds before they start moving. Once they are moving, it takes 10 seconds to go across the whole area.

Execution Wheel/Chopping Block
Either doughnut AoE or point blank AoE respectively, cast during Peal of Judgement. From the cast bar starting, it takes 3 seconds for the AoE to come out.

Flaying Flail
The spiky balls. After the cast is finished, the balls come down. From the point the red line appears between the balls and floor, it takes 3 seconds for the AoE to go off.

After that, the mechanics split depending on what role you are, buy focusing on DPS:

Peal of Judgement come out next with:

Hellmaker
This is just basically an add that you need to kill. It sets the floor alight and does some DoT damage (~12K per tick, or about 10% of my MCH HP as a reference).

It then uses Serial Torture, which is the blades followed by the flails with either Execution Wheel or Chopping Block, with the AoEs going off in the order of first set of saws > flails > Second set + AoE.

Then there is Head Splitting Roar, just a 'room wide' AoE (you only get hit by your own boss).

From there it repeated from the first Peal of Judgement through to Serial Torture. I killed my boss before Serial Torture and the rest went down at the end. I suspect this is the repeating pattern.

As a reference here is the video I recorded to get this data. No, my gameplay was not perfect and I got 2 vuln stacks. My MCH is ilevel 728 and I do show my gear at the end to give an idea. I have only done this dungeon 3 times now, first with PLD, second on Monk and third with MCH, as seen above.

Just note that this is not meant to 'prove' anything, just give a reference point to use as a comparison.

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Originally Posted by Hanzz96

The point is when does it stop? When you get invincible mode? Then what about people whose fingers fell off and they can't hit W do we then get a fully automated visual novel dungeon system?

Someone mentioned WOW follower dungeons and delvs but they still have mechanics and deaths like any trust dungeons. People in here want everything fine tunned for specifically them and are using disingenuous examples to try and prove why they're right and deserve cheat codes.

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Again - no-one is asking for "invincible mode". No-one.

What many are asking for is something other MMO's have had as an option for years. Namely, like the MMO I played before FFXIV - it had 'Normal', 'Advanced' and 'Elite' difficulty settings for ALL content.

And again, player A choosing to play the MSQ on 'Normal' had absolutely ZERO impact on player B who played it on 'Elite'.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Again - no-one is asking for "invincible mode". No-one.

What many are asking for is something other MMO's have had as an option for years. Namely, like the MMO I played before FFXIV - it had 'Normal', 'Advanced' and 'Elite' difficulty settings for ALL content.

And again, player A choosing to play the MSQ on 'Normal' had absolutely ZERO impact on player B who played it on 'Elite'.

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So what if "Normal" is too hard for someone?

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Originally Posted by Ankhira

Nobody asked for an invincibility mode or a nurse... what people are asking for is functional accessibility. That means systems like Trusts working as intended, with reasonable fail-safes for players who struggle. It’s not about removing all challenge it’s about making sure the tools meant to support solo or disabled players actually do their job.

And yes, difficulty tuning is complex. But that’s exactly why scaleable systems exist in other MMOs like WoW’s delves or story mode raids to complete the story. They let players engage at their own level without blocking progression. FFXIV already has a solo-friendly design in many areas, so improving Trusts to better support that isn’t some radical demand.

Mocking people for needing support doesn’t make you right. It just makes the community feel less safe for those who need it most. And that's what games should be. A safe place to enjoy after a long day at work or at a time when life is rough in all areas. Disabled people deal with enough in their lives, do they really need to get crapped on here too? Just be a decent person. It's not hard.

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There will ALWAYS be someone who can't do something, no matter how accessible you make it. There are already systems in the game to help you if you're struggling. You want invincibility or infinite raises with trusts. That's fine. Just be honest about what you really want. But I have to say stopping there is kind of ableist of you.

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Originally Posted by Bitmoar

So what if "Normal" is too hard for someone?

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It was an example from another game. In fact 'Normal' was simply the Devs (from that game) not being willing to outright name it "easy" - although that is, essentially, what it was.

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Originally Posted by Bitmoar

There will ALWAYS be someone who can't do something, no matter how accessible you make it. There are already systems in the game to help you if you're struggling. You want invincibility or infinite raises with trusts. That's fine. Just be honest about what you really want. But I have to say stopping there is kind of ableist of you.

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I’m not here to argue in circles or feed into trolling. I’ve made my point clearly: accessibility isn’t about removing challenge, it’s about making sure the systems designed to support players actually work as intended. If you’re not willing to engage with that in a decent fashion, then there’s really nothing more for me to discuss with you.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

It was an example from another game. In fact 'Normal' was simply the Devs (from that game) not being willing to outright name it "easy" - although that is, essentially, what it was.

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That... doesn't answer the question.