Fine, Bloodwhetting is too OP

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Originally Posted by Carighan

You're now trying to strawman your way out of being caught with a bad-faith argument. The burden of proof is on you. You show that nerfing Bloodwhetting as it rightfully should be (and other non-DRK minor CDs along but not to the same degree as they don't have the same inherent issue, plus that's besides the point of this thread) would lead to an exodus of Warriors. You tried, you immediatley got caught out that you cannot infer this as its trivial to find counterexamples, and now you're struggling to not have to admit that you were, well, flat out wrong.

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Please, I'm going to write it in bold font for you:
I'm not arguing about wether or not we're going to see a WAR exodus if there's a nerf

What my argument is:
The WoW Tank sustain pre-nerf and the XIV tank sustain live are two completely different situation.

I've brought my proof:
-Footage demonstrating pre-nerf and post-nerf to WoW tanks.
-Patchnotes showing the massive nerfs.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

But you do your absolute best to ignore that big flaws in your argument because you know it makes it lose all its weight.
That's why you call it "superfluous".

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Originally Posted by Terhix

This is completely superfluous to the argument I'm making, but yes, given the fact that people didn't quit WoW en masse after nerfs to all tanks that affected them in all content it would then stand to reason people won't quit this game en masse either if you nerf one ability on one job in one very specific content only.

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I didn't call it superfluous and ignored it, I called it superfluous and then showed how it works for my argument on top of it. Again, lol.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Please, I'm going to write it in bold font for you:
I'm not arguing about wether or not we're going to see a WAR exodus if there's a nerf

What my argument is:
The WoW Tank sustain pre-nerf and the XIV tank sustain live are two completely different situation.

I've brought my proof:
-Footage demonstrating pre-nerf and post-nerf to WoW tanks.
-Patchnotes showing the massive nerfs.

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But that’s the point you haven’t made a point

Anjou claimed that nerfing bloodwhetting would cause the tank population to collapse and terhix directly refuted that by saying that a nerf to tank sustain twice didn’t crater WOW’s tank population. You said that it’s an apples to oranges comparison but then didn’t make a statement on Anjou’s original point nor did you explain why WOW being different is evidence that a sustain nerf would be a net negative to 14 when it wasn’t a net negative to WOW

if WOW’s nerf isn’t evidence that a nerf could work in 14 you need to explain why. If your point is a vague “there is a cliff where nerfing beyond the cliff would cause massive dissatisfaction and it’s just neither of WOW’s nerfs crossed that while a 14 nerf would” which is what I’m imagining your point is there is literally less than zero evidence for that

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

But that’s the point you haven’t made a point

Anjou claimed that nerfing bloodwhetting would cause the tank population to collapse and terhix directly refuted that by saying that a nerf to tank sustain twice didn’t crater WOW’s tank population. You said that it’s an apples to oranges comparison but then didn’t make a statement on Anjou’s original point nor did you explain why WOW being different is evidence that a sustain nerf would be a net negative to 14 when it wasn’t a net negative to WOW

if WOW’s nerf isn’t evidence that a nerf could work in 14 you need to explain why.

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Exactly this. It's ridiculous how averse people are to just admitting they're wrong in an argument. More so because all that happened is that they got caught in the troll-y stuff Anjou posts, which can happen to anybody and I sympathize if you end up on the wrong side of a discussion as a result of that. But hey, move on and learn from it (and block Anjou maybe).

Yes, you're actively avoiding that I point out you're comparing apple and oranges.

That's what I'm criticizing and you try your best to avoid it.
I'm not arguing about an hypothetical scenario wether people would leave the game or not.
I'm merely pointing out the differences between the WoW Tank situation and the XIV Tank situation.

You're actively dodging it because you know your argument falls flat, exodus or not.
Who's doing gymnastics here? Because that's a crazy amount of rolling you're doing here.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Yes, you're actively avoiding that I point out you're comparing apple and oranges.

That's what I'm criticizing and you try your best to avoid it.
I'm not arguing about an hypothetical scenario wether people would leave the game or not.
I'm merely pointing out the differences between the WoW Tank situation and the XIV Tank situation.

You're actively dodging it because you know your argument falls flat, exodus or not.
Who's doing gymnastics here? Because that's a crazy amount of rolling you're doing here.

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No we get that, what we are saying is that point alone isn’t an argument either way in the original discussion you added yourself to.

If you have a stance on Anjou’s point (or the wider issue) then you need to explain why “apples to oranges” backs up your point in any way because right now you aren’t even making a point

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

No we get that, what we are saying is that point alone isn’t an argument either way in the original discussion you added yourself to.

If you have a stance on Anjou’s point (or the wider issue) then you need to explain why “apples to oranges” backs up your point in any way because right now you aren’t even making a point

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Cool, I don't have anything to had on Anjou's point and never had. Only wanted to put thing back in context of the WoW tank status and XIV tank status.
Only adding information then Terhix has been arguing that the two events "are similar".

You already know my stance, I've defending that even if your nerf Bloodwhetting it wouldn't change a thing tank or healer wise.
On top of that it's pointless to argue about an hypothetical scenario.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Cool, I don't have anything to had on Anjou's point and never had. Only wanted to put thing back in context of the WoW tank status and XIV tank status.
Only adding information then Terhix has been arguing that the two events "are similar".

You already know my stance, I've defending that even if your nerf Bloodwhetting it wouldn't change a thing tank or healer wise.
On top of that it's pointless to argue about an hypothetical scenario.

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Okay let’s try this again

If your point is that nerfing BW won’t actually improve anyone’s situation in the game and only lead to negatives because in your eyes it makes tanks less fun while not making healers any more fun (which multiple healer mains have stated isn’t the case as a nerf to BW would improve their time playing with a WAR) then how does the WOW situation in any way support your point given it hasn’t led to a reduction in playerbase in WOW and was positively received by healers

Following this given you mentioned apples to oranges as a means of saying the WOW situation is different what is it about the WOW situation that makes it different? If we were to implement the same style of nerfs as the WOW devs did in their explanation of why they did them then why would that lead to a different result than what it did in WOW?

This is what you aren’t explaining

The answer is very simple.
In WoW you could do this and after the nerfs you can't anymore.
In XIV that would just make the sustain from good to be impactful enough to worthless in content that matters but still makes healers mad in dungeon and maps.

Honestly, if you want to prove me wrong it's very simple.
You go in Ktisis Hyperboreia or Vanaspati, dungeons that can't be overgeared synchronized level and solo and you solo the instance while doing as much pulling as possible and without dying once.
It should be possible and you shouldn't die even once, right? You're not pulling as much as in the video correct? So it should be a braindeadbreeze, yes?

Record footage of yourself doing that on Warrior, prove me wrong.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Honestly, if you want to prove me wrong it's very simple.
You go in Ktisis Hyperboreia or Vanaspati, dungeons that can't be overgeared synchronized level and solo and you solo the instance while doing as much pulling as possible and without dying once.

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Why would this showcase that it's not an issue?

And why would failure to do so automatically mean that nerfing Bloodwhetting is the wrong call?

As in, can you provide an actual argument? Or are you just randomly making things up to try avoid having to admit you're wrong? Which you're still doing, btw.