So uh, wheres the long lasting content?

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06-09-2022, 07:45 AM
Ransu

Quote:

Originally Posted by pikalovr

so how many game modes/maps you want? you already have 4 modes for each playlist and 7 modes overall. and you have 10 maps overall which should be fine even if you only got 2 maps a playlist right? or is the content there not enough for you? hmm sounds familiar now doesn't it? also the core gameplay is good so you'd keep playing if the bad things were fixed or taken away right? also sounds familiar

the point is that what you said was in fact in halo infinite. and it still flopped ty for finally understanding what i was getting at. it doesn't matter off only just one thing but multiple things layered ontop of each other once again REGARDLESS OF GENRE.

so now we look at FFXIV you say just go do extreme mount farms. ok i two shot ARR trials as BLM and if i sync myself down the job becomes a hell of a lot less fun. so instead of them fixing the issue of jobs being not made for lower level content anymore. and introducing more unreal trials to give older trials a chance to be farmed at max level like they were back in the day. we the players should just suffer or play something non fun so we can get "content". it's no different than saying you can only get 1/4 fun game modes off a playlist. no it's not our job (devs) to make the modes more fun or add more modes or eliminate the RNG. it's your job (the players) to make the 3/4 modes that aren't fun fun. you see how stupid this mentality is?

You skimmed over all the problems and jumped right to content which isn't the core issue with Halo Infinite. Fix all the other problems and people would have been fine with the limited content. When the game launched you had quickplay and an event playlist and ranked. Ranked is STILL a single play list and we're still missing a ton of classic playlists.

I stopped playing because of the limited playlists, especially for ranked since I hate modes like oddball and because of the challenge system being just terrible. The challenge system was designed to encourage people to spend money in the in game store to buy swaps and instead people just constantly quit games over and over again until they get the mode they need to complete their challenge or they get their 15 minute ban. The progression system, the battle pass, the customizations, the challenge system and general progression are all BAD and then topple that with all the bugs and the constant crashing on the PC version (season 2 launched with a massive glitch that caused your gun to "jam" and randomly stop shooting so I haven't touched ranked at all for season 2 and I'm pretty sure they still haven't fixed it). That is why the game failed. Lack of content only had a small amount to do with it.

Again, any point you had to compare a pvp game to a pve game has completely failed.
06-09-2022, 07:52 AM
IkaraGreydancer

Quote:

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Its essentially the same. He's ignored healer pleas for a long time now, even when Zepla, a very well known streamer who loves 14, has brought it up to him, because she too agrees there is a problem. It's not like the changes people ask for would come at the cost of other peoples enjoyment either. Adding more dps options doesnt mean players HAVE to use them. Its just more options for people who want to feel engaged. As it is right now, its many having to suffer because some people wont allow change.As a game dev, ignoring and gutting an entire role every expansion and not giving proper reasoning for it is lazy and downright unprofessional.

No it isn't essentially the same. Again keep your injections out of it. Your applying malice to said response which I don't find fair as malice isn't clear there. And adding more dps kinda does mean players have to use them cause if they don't they'll be called lazy or bad because "there's no reason not to use them". We already see that now.

Also how do we know we're ignored? People seem to not get that things can be taken into consideration yet not acted on. "They didnt do as we said/asked therefore they ignored us" isnt how it always works. Also wasn't their reasoning ease of use? I'm almost certain that's what they said as the reason why they did this. To lower that barrier of entry.
Nothing lazy about it or unprofessional really. You and others may not like it which is fine but ts not lazy or unprofessional imo.
06-09-2022, 08:12 AM
KizuyaKatogami

Quote:

Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

No it isn't essentially the same. Again keep your injections out of it. Your applying malice to said response which I don't find fair as malice isn't clear there. And adding more dps kinda does mean players have to use them cause if they don't they'll be called lazy or bad because "there's no reason not to use them". We already see that now.

Also how do we know we're ignored? People seem to not get that things can be taken into consideration yet not acted on. "They didnt do as we said/asked therefore they ignored us" isnt how it always works. Also wasn't their reasoning ease of use? I'm almost certain that's what they said as the reason why they did this. To lower that barrier of entry.
Nothing lazy about it or unprofessional really. You and others may not like it which is fine but ts not lazy or unprofessional imo.

Thats why i said basically.... They already do not use them. Adding more wont change anything for them, it merely gives players who want to do more the ability to do more. How do we know we're ignored? The fact that after 4-6 years we only just recently finally got a response on it. Or the fact nothing has changed and the healers have gotten objectively worse over time. There has constantly been a double standard when it comes to healers vs other jobs. Prime example being before the new ultimate. Yoshi p said he didnt want to do any siginificant changes to healers so close to the ultimate....yet directly after that he goes over significant changes theyre doing for dps jobs and says he believes they can adapt to it quickly before the ultimate...Yes, there is clear cut laziness and unprofessionalism going on. I dont expect you of all people to see that however so lets just agree to disagree.
06-09-2022, 08:49 AM
pikalovr

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ransu

You skimmed over all the problems and jumped right to content which isn't the core issue with Halo Infinite. Fix all the other problems and people would have been fine with the limited content. When the game launched you had quickplay and an event playlist and ranked. Ranked is STILL a single play list and we're still missing a ton of classic playlists.

I stopped playing because of the limited playlists, especially for ranked since I hate modes like oddball and because of the challenge system being just terrible. The challenge system was designed to encourage people to spend money in the in game store to buy swaps and instead people just constantly quit games over and over again until they get the mode they need to complete their challenge or they get their 15 minute ban. The progression system, the battle pass, the customizations, the challenge system and general progression are all BAD and then topple that with all the bugs and the constant crashing on the PC version (season 2 launched with a massive glitch that caused your gun to "jam" and randomly stop shooting so I haven't touched ranked at all for season 2 and I'm pretty sure they still haven't fixed it). That is why the game failed. Lack of content only had a small amount to do with it.

Again, any point you had to compare a pvp game to a pve game has completely failed.

hmm yes i'm one skipping over points when you clearly didn't read. "it doesn't matter off only just one thing but multiple things layered ontop of each other once again REGARDLESS OF GENRE." i provided a counter to your point and you ignored it the main talk was of maps and game modes and thats what i focussed on you know the CONTENT something that by itself was supposed to be able to solo carry a shooter pvp game. which it clearly didn't.

but keep going off about irrelevenat points ig. i even provided an example of how the content issues matches up but let's just ignore that as well ig
06-09-2022, 08:51 AM
IkaraGreydancer

Quote:

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Thats why i said basically.... They already do not use them. Adding more wont change anything for them, it merely gives players who want to do more the ability to do more. How do we know we're ignored? The fact that after 4-6 years we only just recently finally got a response on it. Or the fact nothing has changed and the healers have gotten objectively worse over time. There has constantly been a double standard when it comes to healers vs other jobs. Prime example being before the new ultimate. Yoshi p said he didnt want to do any siginificant changes to healers so close to the ultimate....yet directly after that he goes over significant changes theyre doing for dps jobs and says he believes they can adapt to it quickly before the ultimate...Yes, there is clear cut laziness and unprofessionalism going on. I dont expect you of all people to see that however so lets just agree to disagree.

As fas I've seen and experienced healing was fine in SB. The changes didn't really start to happen til ShB so not sure about that 4 to 6 years bit. And yeah maybe they didn't want to make significant changes to healers as maybe that'd effect said ultimate far more. I don't work there as idk. None of us do. On the surface I could see that looking bad but I prefer not to just go by what's on the surface.

What you call laziness is moreso just destain for changes you want but aren't getting. Hell wouldn't constantly gutting (as folks put it require work to be done? Wouldn't that still require making sure said classes can still function and complete content? I could 100% be on board with you if healers were just downright garbage as classes. But this is about enjoyment which is heavily rooted in bias. Much harder to claim objectivity in that regard. I'm not saying healer couldn't use some work. I'm just saying I personally don't think this has to do with laziness r unprofessionalism.

And see, I'm willing to hear you out but then you go on and make a personal jab for no reason...like why dude? Was that really needed?
06-09-2022, 09:04 AM
Ransu

Quote:

Originally Posted by pikalovr

hmm yes i'm one skipping over points when you clearly didn't read. "it doesn't matter off only just one thing but multiple things layered ontop of each other once again REGARDLESS OF GENRE." i provided a counter to your point and you ignored it the main talk was of maps and game modes and thats what i focussed on you know the CONTENT something that by itself was supposed to be able to solo carry a shooter pvp game. which it clearly didn't.

but keep going off about irrelevenat points ig. i even provided an example of how the content issues matches up but let's just ignore that as well ig

You had no actual counter point.
06-09-2022, 10:28 AM
KizuyaKatogami

Quote:

Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

As fas I've seen and experienced healing was fine in SB. The changes didn't really start to happen til ShB so not sure about that 4 to 6 years bit. And yeah maybe they didn't want to make significant changes to healers as maybe that'd effect said ultimate far more. I don't work there as idk. None of us do. On the surface I could see that looking bad but I prefer not to just go by what's on the surface.

What you call laziness is moreso just destain for changes you want but aren't getting. Hell wouldn't constantly gutting (as folks put it require work to be done? Wouldn't that still require making sure said classes can still function and complete content? I could 100% be on board with you if healers were just downright garbage as classes. But this is about enjoyment which is heavily rooted in bias. Much harder to claim objectivity in that regard. I'm not saying healer couldn't use some work. I'm just saying I personally don't think this has to do with laziness r unprofessionalism.

And see, I'm willing to hear you out but then you go on and make a personal jab for no reason...like why dude? Was that really needed?

What is objectively enjoyable about spamming a single button for 90% of a fight even in Savage and Ultinage, the high tier end content? Let me ask you this. And i want your honest opinion. If we took away combo’s from every single dps job and tank, and instead gave them a single damage button with some ogcd’s thrown in to boost damage or what have you, do you truly think there wouldn’t be uproar? Look at the (understandable) reaction to samurai losing a *single* button. Imagine that for every dps job but instead of a single buttons it’s numerous. That’s the equivalent of what has happened to healers over the years. As far as healers go though, the gutting had slowly started in sb. It became much much more prominent in ShB yes, but sch is the one that comes to mind in terms of HW>SB gutting. Also whm was like….absolutely atrocious all throughout SB iirc.
06-09-2022, 11:06 AM
IkaraGreydancer

Quote:

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

What is objectively enjoyable about spamming a single button for 90% of a fight even in Savage and Ultinage, the high tier end content? Let me ask you this. And i want your honest opinion. If we took away combo’s from every single dps job and tank, and instead gave them a single damage button with some ogcd’s thrown in to boost damage or what have you, do you truly think there wouldn’t be uproar? Look at the (understandable) reaction to samurai losing a *single* button. Imagine that for every dps job but instead of a single buttons it’s numerous. That’s the equivalent of what has happened to healers over the years. As far as healers go though, the gutting had slowly started in sb. It became much much more prominent in ShB yes, but sch is the one that comes to mind in terms of HW>SB gutting. Also whm was like….absolutely atrocious all throughout SB iirc.

I never claimed there wouldn't be an uproar. And those 2 scenarios don't fully equate. I'd be all for less dps options on healers if it meant I'd be healing more. Dps and tanks are the ones that would make sense to have numerous dps options. Moreso dps because thats their role. Taking away dps options from dps isn't akin to taking dps option away from healers. The equivalent would be taking dps options away from dps and taking healing options away from healers. I couldn't rightfully say it'd be good or bad if they took dps options away from dps n tanks. Pvp has shown me classes can still be mad fun even with less buttons. That's my honest opinion there

I never claimed objectivity with healers being fun. Again some like healers rn and have fun and others don't. People (including myself) arent healer mains due to us hating the role. There has to be some osrt of enjoyment there. It's ok for both of those groups dude. Stuff 50 and under? Sure I'd say it not exactly good that I play stuff like Dissidia while running stuff. Higher level stuff that isn't the case for me. Things are far more engaging n I do genuinely have fun healing. Again, THATS OK. Just like someone who wouldn't touch healer now with a 10 ft pole. THATS OK. It's all down to preference
06-09-2022, 11:12 AM
Yeastyloins

Quote:

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Everytime someone has brought up a lack of content in EW or low quality content people have brought up how we’re getting the Tataru quests and the Omega quests. So, i gave the benefit of the doubt and said okay maybe this will be fully fleshed out long lasting quests. I guess i was wrong. Completed both in about an hour and a half…. So where exactly is all this new long lasting content? We still have to wait until what, July or August for 6.2?

Just go do ultimate
06-09-2022, 11:12 AM
Nizzi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronduwil

In my experience, you can't engage in a meaningful conversation with those people.

Oh, you mean "they disagree with me and refute everything I say so I ignore them and then later claim you can't engage in a meaningful conversation" huh? Got it.

Quote:

They complain that healing is boring outside of ultimates, but they don't want to do ultimates.

I'mma be real with you, it's ridiculous that the same people who say "erm just unsub its not a game you're meant to be played all the time??" when people say they're bored then parrot Yoshida and say "erm go play Ultimate??" in regards to healers being boring. I shouldn't be forced to prog a fight for weeks to have fun on an entire role. I don't have time for that and quite frankly even if that was a solution, the last one they released before DSR was TEA back in 2019. What happens when people clear Ultimate? Just... do it again and again and then kick rocks if your static wants to not constantly replay a single fight? There's only one Ultimate at level 90, and likely will only be one more this entire expac. This is not a valid answer and it sidesteps the problem when even healer DPS is required in Ultimate content as well.

Quote:

If you point out that they can raise the bar and set a goal of keeping everyone topped off in normal mode, they counter that then they're overhealing.

Wow, what incredibly bad design! You can just come up for little mini-games for yourself that don't contribute anything to the party so you can try to have fun! Contrary to what you might think, there are a lot of players who enjoy doing as best as they can, and with how all content is designed doing DPS and not spamming heals is what is correct. As people who want to help our party, why should we have fun doing something that doesn't help clear?

Quote:

How would they even know that they're overhealing without using an addon that is against ToS anyway? Also, when did overhealing ever prevent anything in normal mode from being completed?

Lol it takes a genius rocket science and a ToS banned program to know that hitting heals when no healing needs to be done is overhealing. What a statement.

Quote:

Then they come back saying that they need more complex DPS rotations as healers. Well, then play a DPS job!

No, I want to play a healer, but the game tells me I have to DPS in Extreme, Savage, etc content. It's also not fun to press buttons that don't need to be pressed just so I can have fake depth and pretend like I'm doing more. I don't want to play a DPS job, but I want to contribute to the team, so what am I supposed to do when there's nothing to heal? Exactly; you do DPS. The developers understand this and design the harder content to REQUIRE it.
Further, the options are all the same for every healer; no healer has a different DPS playstyle despite content requiring healers do as much DPS as possible to meet tight enrage timers. It's so bad that even something minor as giving SCH back Miasma on a different timer would make it feel way better to play and would let me happily main the job for all of this expac. We want more to do, DPS options are the quickest and easiest path considering how the game is designed.
I don't want to play a DPS, I want to play a healer. Scholar specifically is the only job I care about at all in this game above a baseline level. Seems a bit ridiculous to say "pick another job" when what Scholar had in the past is what I want. Maybe just go back to how it was? It had these things in the past; we're not asking for anything new or for the job to play differently.

Quote:

Adjusting the gameplay to suit the preferences of this fringe is a great way to tank the game's popularity.

Yeah definitely it was removing the DoTs/Selene from SCH, AST's unique cards, etc that made this game get popular. Clearly, going back to the way things used to be would tank the games popularity. Oh wait, SCH and AST are still the two least played healers in the game, I am 100% positive that returning a few old actions will not cause the death of this game. People aren't signing up to play this game because "wow I heard all four of the healers spam 1 button for 70-80% of their casts, that sounds like the game for me!" they're signing up for the actual good aspects of the game.
And honestly, if there are people who would be sad that all four healers were no longer 1 button monsters, that's tough? They sure didn't really seem to care when every healer became what they are now. Let there be diversity back in this role so everyone can have the playstyle they want, rather than being forced into this nonsense.

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