Revelations from Patch 5.5 (Part 2)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YianKutku

In Fourchenault's case, it's probably because no matter what his motivations, it still doesn't excuse his actions. Currently every potentially sympathetic reading of his possible motivations lead to the conclusion that Fourchenault is either very stupid, or still a jerk for choosing this method anyway. My expectation is that if Fourchenault is revealed to have the twins' best interests at heart, the writers will again conveniently forget that he chose to use this method, instead of any other.

---

I don’t think every possible reading makes him out to be stupid or a jerk. I think people are just being purposely ignorant towards him because he verbally hurt “their children.” If he has them in his mind and he is doing what he’s doing for the betterment of the world, which is entirely possible, then no that isn’t really stupid or him being a jerk. I would hope the writers don’t just repeat past story contrivances because that’s extremely lazy. But based on how much we know currently i don’t think it’s going to be anywhere as simple as everyone is making it out to be. People need to get over that someone was actually “harsh” to the twins for once lmao.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crushnight

To her dying breath I hated Yotsuyu, her only saving graces was she made Goesetsu a better character, all my dialogue choices always reflected that, I cared about Goesetsu not Yotsuyu or Tsuyu, her other saving grace is her boss fight is fun.

Fourchenault did a jerk move here but he isn't irredeemable like Yotsuyu was, I believe he disowned his children to manipulate them into coming home, I am positive he knows his own daughter well enough to know she is headstrong and would want an answer from him, now whether or not he wants them to come home for their protection or to change the Forum's mind on something he personally doesn't approve of is pure speculation.

That said I do still want to call him out or punch him because he looked down on my character the man was a jerk.

---

Same in regards to Yotsuyu, except I'd say she had one more redeeming quality, taking Asahi out of the story with her. Even if his body is being repurposed now.

There were the bones of a compelling story and good character there. But they made the classic mistake of going in too hard too fast with the evil. Like, when you're coercing peasants to murder eachother for your own amusement, simply because they're from the same NATION that wronged you, who had NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT YOU WENT THROUGH PERSONALLY I find it kind of hard to care about her admittedly legitimately messed up background. Trauma is not an excuse to murder and torture people.

Same thing with the roe traitor person from Bozja whose name escapes me at the moment, they had her go in too far with the sadism after her betrayal for me to consider the option of 'it was the commanding officer's fault actually don't execute her.'

This is something you see a lot in some games and anime where they try to redeem a character with a sad backstory or something, but they went too far with the intial evil and sadistic nature of them for me to care. A sad backstory is not an excuse for being a terrible person.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YianKutku

If that Ark is powered by voidsent I desperately hope to have a response of "have you literally learned nothing from the past few Calamities".

---

We just might. ShB gave us more chances than ever to snark at people. Ishikawa willing, EW will continue that.

Honestly, even if Fortnite had no relation to the twins and had just come to deliver the Forum’s answer and leave right after, his “ah yes, Reapers” attitude makes me want to rip into him even worse than Y’shtola is doing in the trailer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I just find it funny how people assume the worst from someone we’ve seen for 5 minutes tops lmao. Have we learned nothing from things like ARR and HW.

---

*looks at Yuyuhase, Laurentius, Archbishop, Vauthry, etc*
We've had this before and it was obvious before. Yes we've had people who turn out to be more than we suspected, but we've also had people who were EXACTLY what we expected.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Why do people keep acting like alphy and alisaie are their irl kids? :think: that’s really weird to me. Irregardless, even Graha comments that something is up with their dad. The way he acted in the patch is unlike what both the EE and Alisaie herself comments on in SB,so i’m pretty sure he’s trying to protect them. Don’t see any reason to be aggressive towards him. Especially because we’ve literally only seen the man for 5 minutes. If the WoL acted like some of the people want to...i don’t think we’d be much of a “hero” lmao.

---

Because people care about these two and seeing how they are still teenagers some of us simply might see them as family. (Just like Edmont sees the WoL as part of their family) And even if he has a plan, disowning his children, who really went through a lot, is just horrible. Things like that can mentally hurt people and we see it with Alphinauds reaction afterwards.

Even if all that is for some greater good (and we dont even know that) it was still done in a way that hurt his own children.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EdwinLi

I still heavily suspect Sharlayan been planning for the Final Days for a very long time. We know that we my even enter a Ark that Sharlayan made in 6.0 as a Dungeon which looks almost or is already complete.

---

And here I really wonder: How could they have planned that for a long time when the world would not have final days without us changing the future? The first course of history was a world where a lot of people were killed thanks to black rose. It was a future where the world was still bad 200 years later and where everyone other than Lahabrea was still alive.

I really have a hard time believing that Sharlayan somehow already knew that we would come and change the history. Honestly for me it feels that maybe they still believe that the bad future will happen thus why its just a petty conflict between Eorzea nd Garlemald to them. Maybe they will painfully learn that all their knowledge will amount to nothing.

_______

Still about disowning his children to protect them: From what? Sharlayan? Because if he plans to somehow keep his children save then disowning them imo does not help at all...they will continue fighting which could get them killed. Wouldnt it make more sense to bascially force his children to come with him so that they can be save at home?

If he wanted to keep them save from his own country then that seemingly also did not work at all..after all we already plan to go to it after Krile sends her okay.

Each to their own, I guess, but I don't see the sadism of Yotsuyu and Misijia as being much different to that of the Warrior of Darkness and Scions at this point. Not after the deliberate and sustained physical and mental torture of a medic on the battlefield, cruelly cutting down her friends and comrades right in front of her as she begged for mercy. Not just once but twice - with ample opportunity to take her as a prisoner - and then in the final confrontation she is cut down like a rabid dog.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alleo

Because people care about these two and seeing how they are still teenagers some of us simply might see them as family. (Just like Edmont sees the WoL as part of their family) And even if he has a plan, disowning his children, who really went through a lot, is just horrible. Things like that can mentally hurt people and we see it with Alphinauds reaction afterwards.

Even if all that is for some greater good (and we dont even know that) it was still done in a way that hurt his own children.

---

If it’s a matter of the world vs hurting his kids feelings, i’m sure the latter more than justifies it. They’ll get over it as i’m sure they’ll have some expansion long arc about how the wol is their new parent and the scions are their true family yadda yadda. It might just be what helps Alphinaud and Alisaie grow up tbh. With Arenvald’s hero worship of Alphinaud certainly not helping him much this patch, i think what the dad did might just be the kick in the head he needs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I just find it funny how people assume the worst from someone we’ve seen for 5 minutes tops lmao. Have we learned nothing from things like ARR and HW.

---

What I got from the end of ARR was trust issues, to the point where I spent some time expecting a cutscene of Haurchefant hurting the WoL -part of why I hated the road trip was because for a while I was waiting for Estinien and Ysayle to each try to kill me again. Most of the new characters I’ve encountered since then, I have fallen into the habit of regarding with suspicion until I’ve seen/known enough of them to believe they’re okay. That way, when, say, Asahi really does turn out to be the worst ambassador ever, or Emet goes after me/my friends, I’m not shocked, just ready to finally throw hands. And when the Fortemps family really does like me, or Kai-Shirr and the Chais turn out to be pretty cool, I get a pleasant surprise. Heck, I still don’t trust Hancock!

Endwalker may give me a good reason or three to think better of 4ChanAlt, but until I get those reasons, he and his mysterious doomsday contingency plan get the side-eye.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I just find it funny how people assume the worst from someone we’ve seen for 5 minutes tops lmao. Have we learned nothing from things like ARR and HW.

---

I mean we already at least know about his stance with his own father who simply wanted to save Eorzea. (And we know how that would have ended if he was not there?) Alisaie also does not talk that greatly about him either, saying that he barely even stayed in contact with his kids. And now he was shown as someone straight up disowning his children while others are there too.

I think it should be quite reasonable that not everyone still likes him and thinks of him as an awesome person.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

That word again, eh? Well, I suppose it's all a matter of perspective ultimately. Much like humans in the real world, realistic characters in fictional settings are complex and hypocritical.

I'm reminded of Yotsuyu and how many here claimed she had zero redeeming qualities or reason for doing what she did only for 4.3 to further highlight already present elements of her backstory and suddenly the tune changed quite drastically.

I suspect we'll see a similar situation come into play with Fourchenault.

---

Of course people are complex but that does not mean that we have to like them or think that they are great. Even the worst real life people will have something sympathetic if you dig deep enough but that does not mean that this suddenly outweights their actions.

Just like how Yotsuyus past might have explained her a bit more and gave a more complex story behind her actions but what she did was still absolutely horrible. (I also have a hard time seeing people comparing Yotsuyu and the twins dad. Not liking a character because they acted like a jerk and wanting to teach him some kind of lesson is not the same as saying that he is on the same level as the woman who mass murdered and tortured countless of Doman people)

I mean you also dont like all the characters in the game. Graha is a recent example. Someone that also only got a major role with Shadowbringers and that after 5.3 has to find his place in the old world. Yet its quite fine to wish him death even though his own character arc as the new Graha just started while we cant go and say that we simply dont like the twins dad because right now he is a jerk?

How many people disliked Alphinaud because he was a stuck up brat in ARR? Were they wrong too to dislike him at that moment? When are we allowed to like or dislike a character? Maybe sometimes the view will change with more story later but maybe he will be just a jerk at the end.

I think it's fine for a nation to decide not to involve itself in foreign affairs and cling to a stance of neutrality. In turn, they shouldn't expect any help from others if they themselves find themselves in trouble.

It wasn't as if they didn't attempt to do anything to diffuse tensions, either. They sent diplomats to Garlemald in an effort to dissuade Eorzea from being conquered and their words fell on deaf ears. They chose to withdraw from Eorzea rather than stand and fight - and their choice should be respected, as far as I'm concerned.

To me, it's just a case of the likes of Alphinaud and Alisae being so selfish that they believe that every nation needs to conform to their world view and if they do not then they need to be strong armed into changing their mind.

As for the family squabbling, the twins have long since overstayed their welcome in the story for me so at this point I'm rather indifferent to their 'plight'. Their father already respected their decision to take their leave of Sharlayan in favour of following in their Grandfather's footsteps, even if Fourchenault disagreed with it. Sure, he might have disowned them but I don't think that is going to hit them as hard as some seem to be implying. For starters, they've barely mentioned their mother or father up until this point, they're not lacking in supportive individuals around them and they've already been throwing themselves headfirst into danger on repeated occasions.