PSA - Cleric Stance and vote kicking

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Originally Posted by BorisDaBlade

It's not being melodramatic. Everyone wants healers to be pulling 1k dps in every instance, or your just a garbage, time wasting healer.

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Originally Posted by BorisDaBlade

I understand that, but the community tolerates, casual tanks and casual dps, but heaven forbid you have casual healers that only want to do their role.

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Eh, I mostly heal (and Bard occasionally). I dps whenever I can and I've never had anyone tell me I was doing anything wrong (such as not doing enough damage). I think most people just don't appreciate it when healers stand around doing nothing. Sorry if you've had bad experiences, but I find it hard to believe that they are the norm. I won't get mad or kick healers that don't dps, anyways, as there are worse things than a smooth/slower run. Then again, when I use DF I totally expect to adjust to the party I get paired up with.

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Originally Posted by Tobalito

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I mean, I dont see the difference. My job as a dps is to do damage, not good damage. and I definitely don't have to use any of my support utilities either. A tanks job is to just hold aggro. everything else is secondary.

And yes, actually. I've had a bunch of summoners who healed when necessary and even raised party members, including healers, when they were down. That's actually the making of a great Summoner, but it is only optional. the summoners can literally just do dots if they choose. They don't ever have to call out an egi if they don't want. Their main job is to do damage.

Ninjas don't have to do mudras, Bards dont have to sing songs, warriors never have to go into deliverance, machinists never have to call out turrets, Astros never have to pull cards. Monks don't have to use their stances or chakras, BLM"s can just be ice mages, Dragoons don't have to use BOTD, DRK's dont have to use Dark Arts, and PLD's never have to use a damage combo.


All of those things are optional ways for those jobs to maximize their outputs, utilize every ability they have in their arsenal, and make the runs faster and more enjoyable for everyone involved. But they are not things that are required of them for them to do with what the role is deemed for them to do. DPS just has to do damage, Tanks just have to hold aggro, and Heals just have to heal, as you've mentioned.

Keep in mind that a Vote Kick for any other reason than that is listed (non meta play doesn't count as harassment) can be penalized.

Both sides of this arguement are being absurd.

Nope, it's covered by playstyle differences.

re: TransientShadow

link: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2357707

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Originally Posted by BorisDaBlade

It's not being melodramatic. Everyone wants healers to be pulling 1k dps in every instance, or your just a garbage, time wasting healer.

I dps my but off and if I'm doing more damage than a actual dps, you better bet theyre gonna tank the floor at the first missed mechanic. It's quicker to swift raise than to try to heal through stupid.

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You are being a bit dramatic though. I understand that it can be frustrating when people as so much of you (and to be fair, most people who want healers to heal only really wants you to just not be standing there when you have the ability to help out every once in a while), but saying that you are just going to stop healing altogether is over the top. not a single person is asking for that.

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Originally Posted by ToasterMan

That's the whole issue. Many players picked up the healing role in order to heal. You just said It's only 20% of the dungeon. You don't see that as a problem?

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It is a problem, very much so.

It's just none the players can solve, only SE can. We the players just work with what they are giving us. You can make threads and dev requests, you can ask about it during open Q&As, but in the end, they are the ones to tune the content and develop the jobs.

And part of the issue is that if you want things to change, you need to realize you are asking for nerfs, something people react very allergically to. You either need to nerf healers and tanks indirectly by increasing incoming damage (thereby also indirectly nerfing DPS jobs) or making the mitigation/healing more complex and time consuming to get the same effect, or you need to nerf them directly by reducing their mitigation/healing flat. Or a combination of all of those. Either way, it boils down to reducing their power to cut down on downtime.

That alone would solve the issue for "most" players - a bit of downtime cannot be helped, because you need to accommodate different gear and skill levels and everyone who is above the minimum of both will have some degree of downtime. That's just innate to the roles and that downtime will have to be filled somehow - How? Different discussion. But as it stands, downtime isn't just a topic for high skilled healers, it's a topic for everyone without a crippling disability and that's, well... bad design IMO.

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Originally Posted by ToasterMan

That's the whole issue. Many players picked up the healing role in order to heal. You just said It's only 20% of the dungeon. You don't see that as a problem?

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That particular problem is indeed an issue but it's out of the players' hands. The dev team insists on releasing large swaths of content which panders to the lowest common denominator. They refuse to implement anything which forces players to try to raise their own skill and as such we're left with dungeons which only need 20% active healing. I don't think it's an unrealistic expectation that healers should push at least 70% of the number of buttons that tanks and dps have to in a typical dungeon run and if the design only requires 20% of those actions to be healing related, then the question arises of what do healers do with their remaining time?

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Originally Posted by BorisDaBlade

I have to stop dpsing to start healing, so that's not going to work very well for my experiment. Which means I'll be using the lb1 for heals instead of dps using it. I'll pop out of clerics for tetra and asylum, but since assize is strickly a dps skill, no aoe heals other than lb.

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Trying to jump an argument to the very extremes does little to help your cause. Especially when no one on the other side has advocated such extremes.

I'll go telling crazy stuff but will say the real problems are two:

1) duties not difficult enough to keep the healer busy on healing;
2) healer's dmg on par with dps's one (not really a problem by itself, 'tho, leveling solo an healer was always a pain in other mmos);

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Originally Posted by ToasterMan

That's the whole issue. Many players picked up the healing role in order to heal. You just said It's only 20% of the dungeon. You don't see that as a problem?

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I'm very sympathetic to the fact that many people would like to be able to play a "pure" healer like a lot of other games have. It's just that with the way content is designed here and the way the jobs are designed it's not effective to play that way. You don't "carry your weight" playing that way, and intentionally ignoring your ability to contribute more to the group because you want to be a pure healer is extremely selfish.