The positive Astrologian thread!

So, Tato, just to get this straight ... You want people to stop giving their opinion on why AST isn't fine, while you give your opinion on AST being fine? And you're also basing your argument that "AST is fine" around your specific raid group's DPS/healer being deficient at properly playing the meta to clear content?

Right ...

You're so quick to tell other people to "git gud" or "l2p" but you admit your own raid group isn't "git gud" since your WHM is incapable of solo-healing enough for you to properly use SCH. That doesn't mean "AST is fine" compared to WHM/SCH meta.

And by "metas" I don't mean the sole party composition, I mean everything. Raiders know that anything inside a raid group can make a difference between higher and lower numbers. During my T13 (pre-DF) progression, my group couldn't pass adds, no matter what we did; then, we tried something different: the OT would bring adds closer to cut some of the DPS moving around. That did the trick. Anything inside a raid can be reworked for better results. With WHM/SCH, it's easier to figure out these tiny details that make DPS go higher because we've done it 13 times over the past 2 years. The reason the other two new jobs require less group effort is obvious: tanking/dpsing playstyles usually don't affect the whole group, but healing does. It's more comfortable for a SCH to just go into Cleric and for a WHM to just bend themselves backwards to solo heal. With AST, WHMs have breathing room to DPS and, obviously, SCHs can't just hop into Cleric and forget everything.

I'm doing over 540 dps on Faust as SCH, and I only DPS for half of the fight, because my WHM partner can't handle solo healing Faust. During Oppressors, my WHM uses Cleric Stance everytime he sees me casting any healing spell. It's stressful, because SCHs don't have half of the AoE potency a WHM has. I'm not the best SCH, I know that, but I can't solo heal AND DPS AND support AND shield while my WHM is slacking. He can't even heal himself when he gets prey. His "healing" style doesn't allow any room for a SCH in the party. If he wants to DPS, then I'll let him. AST will make it easier for both of us.

I think Tato's situation is something that we actually need to experience ourselves. I'm quite interested in Tato's raid group's WHM healing style and what they're doing. If you could elaborate, Tato, that would be nice :o

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Originally Posted by GideonHighmourn

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You totally misread me, dude. I'll make myself clear: I don't think there is any reason for jobs to be "competitive". What does that even mean? There's no reason for different jobs to perform the same with the same strategies. The healing strategy "1 solo healing/1 dpsing" is always going to work better with WHM/SCH; there's no reason to make AST competitive in that field. If your group wants to do that, then go WHM/SCH. There's no reason to buff any job just because it doesn't fit in a specific strategy.

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Originally Posted by TatoRazzino

I'm doing over 540 dps on Faust as SCH, and I only DPS for half of the fight, because my WHM partner can't handle solo healing Faust. During Oppressors, my WHM uses Cleric Stance everytime he sees me casting any healing spell. It's stressful, because SCHs don't have half of the AoE potency a WHM has. I'm not the best SCH, I know that, but I can't solo heal AND DPS AND support AND shield while my WHM is slacking. He can't even heal himself when he gets prey. His "healing" style doesn't allow any room for a SCH in the party. If he wants to DPS, then I'll let him. AST will make it easier for both of us.

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That has nothing to do with "the meta" or why AST is/isn't better or on-par with other healers. You're just telling us that your WHM is playing poorly and needs you to make up for his slack.

You may as well play two WHM at that point.

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What does that even mean? There's no reason for different jobs to perform the same with the same strategies.

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And this is what you misunderstand. No one is asking for AST to perform exactly the same function in the previous meta that WHM/SCH would have. They're asking for them to be able to match/compete with their own meta. Currently, AST doesn't compete in the previous meta or create their own, new meta which can compete with the previous one. This is what leads to AST not being taken in progression groups.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

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Read the OP.
This thread was about posting the things we love about about the astrologian.
This was not about a "civil discussion" you got enough threads for that.
So yea, this thread has converter from "hey let's talk positive to yet another discussion thread and hereby lose it's meaning.

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Originally Posted by Assirra

Read the OP.

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To be fair, the OP kind of went along with the topic change in the last several pages of the thread.

Regardless of what the intended topic was ...

I still really enjoy AST. I played today a bit in the roulettes, and was having a particularly lucky streak with Draw. Kind of made me smile for a bit; it was a nice departure from drawing Ewer/Spire/Spear constantly!

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Originally Posted by GideonHighmourn

And this is what you misunderstand. No one is asking for AST to perform exactly the same function in the previous meta that WHM/SCH would have. They're asking for them to be able to match/compete with their own meta. Currently, AST doesn't compete in the previous meta or create their own, new meta which can compete with the previous one. This is what leads to AST not being taken in progression groups.

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Yeah, I'd like to see a situation where WHM/AST is useful, letting the WHM do the bulk of the direct healing while the AST boosts the group DPS significantly and provides damage mitigation (disable/shields) and/or emergency heals.

The problem is that even with something like that, the SCH would still end up doing it better right now.