The Ninja Superthread

INT affects all magic damage potency. All elemental damage, including un-aspected damage from the Arcanist line, is considered Magic Damage and is affected by INT. This includes Dragonfire Dive, it's elemental based - But it scales off Weapon Damage and Strength as well. The same goes for all of the Elemental based Ninjitsu's from the NIN.

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Originally Posted by FyrmurlFloerasksyn

Is 460 dps for a nin with diamond daggers too low?

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how long are you parsing for? I don't think it's bad.

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Originally Posted by Odowla

It lines it up later - the second TA has B4B on it, and gets the dot re-application on it. I've tried both, the DoT opener does less

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After some testing I was getting about 10 dps less with your rotation, but that could be small user error and the fact that my mudras and double ogcd just isn't as smooth.

With yours I never had TA for Mutilate in the first application and it fell off right as Shadowfang was going out a few times. Buffs are multiplicative, so ensuring your most damaging attacks get the full damage boost from your buffs + TA in the opener is paramount.

Both rotations line up SF with IR (probably because of their similar durations).

Both rotations stack TA and B4B for the second application, but mine only refreshes SF during that period while yours does both DoTs. Which would be a dps increase, except it doesn't make up for the much bigger loss of the opening Mutilate not getting TA.

Might try some more but seems like a wash.

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Originally Posted by Best-MNK-NA

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Not to defend their opener but an opener will almost never extrapolate into 10 DPS at the end of a 3 minute parse, maybe MNK is the exception here (Missing a GL stack). But not with Ninja. I'd also like to note that while getting as much damage as you can under all buffs is important, sacrificing potency in other areas isn't always the best way to go about it.

But I 100% agree that their opener is a "wash", Using AE before Dots is not a good ideal at all. Ofc their initial burst parse is going to be higher but in the long run they will lose potency.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

This is a general Ninja thread, just like the Dragoon: A Rotation Reborn (new thread soon) and A Monk Temple Reborn thread. Ask anything.

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Ah, okay!

Well first things first. Please tell me when and how I'll finally start getting some decent gear? I've no idea who was in charge of the low level armors, but I have a feeling that they wanted to troll some of the players. Just the colors alone are down right awful and don't even get me started on the designs. I've looked like a clown for the 35 levels I've played so far. I'm huge on character customization/looks and so far I've been disappointed at every turn. So yeah, when do I actually start getting Rogue specific armor? Or rather something that doesn't look like a 5 year old colored in with random crayon colors.

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Originally Posted by Hakumen

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Welcome to most MMO's. The good looking gear is very far in between in levels and all the highly designed gear is at 50. If you needed something to glamour, you can get the Foestriker's set that all pieces drop from Satasha, Tam-Tara, and Copperbell. There is also the lv.35 set that looks cool that drops from Brayflox. Low level armor is kind of designed to motivate you to get to 50 to get the "cool looking gear".

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Originally Posted by Best-MNK-NA

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I'll get some PPS values, that matters more than DPS values. I disagree that buffs are multiplicative, though - or a MNK wouldnt get anywhere nearly as high damage. (27% + 10% more + 11% more, etc.. that's like only 32% more damage compared to their +48%..)

1 Mutilate missing 10% damage isnt a massive decrease, and like you said its made up later :P

Finished; Here's Results.

DoT opener: http://i.gyazo.com/4753de3e38f68b44a6cbad03ba559d6c.png
the columns being total potency, and PPS.

My opener: http://i.gyazo.com/f6bdc203e7c8edd2d2cea673ce11b55b.png

So the difference is 2 PPS. Not enough to REALLY make a difference, but enough that it does affect your damage.

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Originally Posted by Lavieh

[A]n opener will almost never extrapolate into 10 DPS at the end of a 3 minute parse

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As I said, there may have been some user error. If it was a clearly superior opener the dot timings would've lined up for significantly greater damage but it was a negligible difference.

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Originally Posted by Odowla

I disagree that buffs are multiplicative, though - or a MNK wouldnt get anywhere nearly as high damage. (27% + 10% more + 11% more, etc.. that's like only 32% more damage compared to their +48%..)

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Different kind of multiplicative. 100 potency + 27% + 10% + 11% = 155.067 potency if multiplicative (55.067% increase) vs 148 potency if additive (48% increase). I haven't done enough testing to confirm this is how it works (though it seems true), just read many people reporting it as such. Regardless, a Mutilate with xpot + b4b + TA is obviously more damage than mutilate with just b4b + ta but I do think it's possible to get the opening Mutilate in under TA with some good latency.

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So the difference is 2 PPS.

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Still a difference of ~4 dps. Not bad. How accurate is potency parsing and does it take into account buffs?

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Originally Posted by Best-MNK-NA

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It is really accurate and does take buffs into account.

I did some testing with my opener vs. theirs and I got varying results. User error and Latency still play a small role in the outcome, so I'd take the 2 pps difference they posted with a grain of salt.

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Originally Posted by Best-MNK-NA

As I said, there may have been some user error. If it was a clearly superior opener the dot timings would've lined up for significantly greater damage but it was a negligible difference.
Different kind of multiplicative. 100 potency + 27% + 10% + 11% = 155.067 potency if multiplicative (55.067% increase) vs 148 potency if additive (48% increase). I haven't done enough testing to confirm this is how it works (though it seems true), just read many people reporting it as such. Regardless, a Mutilate with xpot + b4b + TA is obviously more damage than mutilate with just b4b + ta but I do think it's possible to get the opening Mutilate in under TA with some good latency.

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Yeah I've gotten Mutilate a few times as well. +2 PPS on a good run, on par on my worst ones, otherwise they're equal.