Final Fantasy XIV Auto-Attack Video

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Originally Posted by Bled

I am saying your claims have no bases, you think an MMO is developed in 3 years time which is laughable. You also believe in the stone age which is also laughable. And every other post you mention TERA why the hell are you even here? go hang out on the TERA forums.

TERA is not the standard by which all games should be modeled, its not even out yet in NA..

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I do hang out there, I hang out here too cuse I play XIV.

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Originally Posted by Bled

I'm saying because you develop something that works, does not mean you should stop at that... smart a**

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I'm not saying you should stop at that, what I'm saying is even though we have planes doesn't mean we went and changed what the wheel is. You dont see planes with skiies instead, sliding across the ice to take off. The wheel works, it does the job, dont change it, no need to.

Same logic applies to the battle system. They had a working system but felt the need to change it, complicate it and eventually have it as a result of "broken" and being put back to how it should be. Because something like Stats does not need improving on, its a finalised and fully purposed feature. There are some things there are just not worth improving on.

It's like trying to reinvent the cup. CANT BE DONE!

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Originally Posted by viion

I do hang out there, I hang out here too cuse I play XIV.



I'm not saying you should stop at that, what I'm saying is even though we planes doesn't mean we went and changed what the wheel is. You dont see planes with skiies instead sliding across the ice to take off. The wheel works, it does the job, dont change it, no need to. Same logic applies to the battle system. They had a working system but felt the need to change it, complicate it and eventually have it as a result of "broken" and being put back to how it should be. Because something like Stats does not need improving on, its a finalised and fully purposed feature. There are some things there are just not worth improving on. It's like trying to reinvent the cup. CANT BE DONE!

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You see the attempt to reinvent the wheel and i see an attempt at the air plane. Ideas fail countless times when they try to revolutionize something; much like how many times inventions attempting flight failed, but when they nail it, it revolutionized travel.

In the analogy i see battle as TRAVEL and the wheel, air plane, ski what have it being different attempts to change/improve it, which would be different MMO's trying different systems to change/improve battle..

Many different successful MMO's have tried many different battle systems, FF XIV just failed and as much as that sucks it still dose not mean they should stop trying to innovate.

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Originally Posted by viion

I do hang out there, I hang out here too cuse I play XIV.



I'm not saying you should stop at that, what I'm saying is even though we have planes doesn't mean we went and changed what the wheel is. You dont see planes with skiies instead, sliding across the ice to take off. The wheel works, it does the job, dont change it, no need to.

Same logic applies to the battle system. They had a working system but felt the need to change it, complicate it and eventually have it as a result of "broken" and being put back to how it should be. Because something like Stats does not need improving on, its a finalised and fully purposed feature. There are some things there are just not worth improving on.

It's like trying to reinvent the cup. CANT BE DONE!

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if someone comes up with better tech, the wheel will be ignored. if someone comes up with a better cup, cup will be ignored. See water bottles, cup wasnt the end of drink holders. Games need to reinvent themselves or they never progress. the games you love would not be the games you love if no one tried to innovate. Bad execution is not bad idea, its just bad execution.

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Originally Posted by Ilean

IMO it's about to be. :S

BTW if you are trying to defend or justify release-date-FFXIV in any way, you already lost.

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What TERA!

If anything all MMO's should model themselves after WoW, Supreme ruler of the MMO universe.

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Originally Posted by Physic

if someone comes up with better tech, the wheel will be ignored. if someone comes up with a better cup, cup will be ignored. See water bottles, cup wasnt the end of drink holders. Games need to reinvent themselves or they never progress. the games you love would not be the games you love if no one tried to innovate. Bad execution is not bad idea, its just bad execution.

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So do you only have bottles in your house? and when you wake up go down stairs you have a bottle of coffee? Then go out to starbucks and get a cappuccino in a bottle?

You guys are confusing with making additional features or REPLACING. The bottle does NOT replace the cup, its used for a DIFFERENT purpose.

The Stats system was REPLACED nothing was added on top, there wasnt any additional features, they just completely replaced it, and not they're unreplacing it. Because no one likes coffee in a bottle.

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Originally Posted by viion

So do you only have bottles in your house? and when you wake up go down stairs you have a bottle of coffee? Then go out to starbucks and get a cappuccino in a bottle?

You guys are confusing with making additional features or REPLACING. The bottle does NOT replace the cup, its used for a DIFFERENT purpose.

The Stats system was REPLACED nothing was added on top, there wasnt any additional features, they just completely replaced it, and not they're unreplacing it. Because no one likes coffee in a bottle.

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With that same analogy do you only use cups in your house? or do you have mugs, bottles, cartons? Each different container serves a different purpose, but all are a means to the same end.

Again they tried something new and failed, that dose not mean new things shouldn't be tried to innovate non perfect systems.

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Originally Posted by viion

So do you only have bottles in your house? and when you wake up go down stairs you have a bottle of coffee? Then go out to starbucks and get a cappuccino in a bottle?

You guys are confusing with making additional features or REPLACING. The bottle does NOT replace the cup, its used for a DIFFERENT purpose.

The Stats system was REPLACED nothing was added on top, there wasnt any additional features, they just completely replaced it, and not they're unreplacing it. Because no one likes coffee in a bottle.

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The game should serve a different purpose from what they made before that is still out. People do like coffee in a bottle btw, see thermos.

analogy is pointless, fact is any creative engineering is going to look at multiple solutions, there is more than one solution. To be perfectly honest, the game didnt fail because of one feature, it failed because it was executed so poorly at launch most people didnt stay around, and they lost more (they honestly still had a lot of players in dec) when they basically said we arent adding any new content for the forseeable future.
Guild wars is trying to innovate, and people seem to be very excited about that. Its about execution. Some one builds a buggy car that breaks down, it doesnt matter if it uses wheels or not, the problem is it breaks down. Some one builds a car without wheels that has better speed and control and doesnt break down more than a regular car, and the wheeled car will be ignored forever.

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Originally Posted by Bled

With that same analogy do you only use cups in your house? or do you have mugs, bottles, cartons? Each different container serves a different purpose, but all are a means to the same end.

Again they tried something new and failed, that dose not mean new things shouldn't be tired to innovate non perfect systems.

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But they are used for different purposes. A Stats system is not used for different purposes. Its for the exact same purpose. If I want a drink, I get a Cup, If I want to take a drink outside and be able to bin it when im finished, I use a bottle, because it has a different purpose. If I buy a drink and want to store it, I can use a carton, it has a different purpose.

The stats system does not have multiple purposes, you dont use a stat system to decide how to move around, you dont use a stat system to talk to your linkshell members, you dont use the stat system to teleport, because its not ment for those purposes.

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Originally Posted by Physic

if someone comes up with better tech, the wheel will be ignored. if someone comes up with a better cup, cup will be ignored. See water bottles, cup wasnt the end of drink holders. Games need to reinvent themselves or they never progress. the games you love would not be the games you love if no one tried to innovate. Bad execution is not bad idea, its just bad execution.

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Just not you. That's the point.

It's a business, in a sense results with financial ruins of = death to business.

Should FF14's budget be made, released, and killed off so 5yrs down the road some KRMMO perfect the system?

FF14 is not a science project, it's a product. Unless a product sells, it's just people throwing money, even if it's a "greater good" it's not going to be them.

There's a right way to innovate and there's a wrong way. If you want to bet you life on a lottery to prove your son can see into the future...go ahead.

FF14 is going back to dull basics, but it should have been that with the start. Start with basics then add flavor and then maybe-just-maybe you can get a brilliant out of it if you're lucky.

Delusions of Grandeur can have disastrous results.

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Originally Posted by viion

But they are used for different purposes. A Stats system is not used for different purposes. Its for the exact same purpose. If I want a drink, I get a Cup, If I want to take a drink outside and be able to bin it when im finished, I use a bottle, because it has a different purpose. If I buy a drink and want to store it, I can use a carton, it has a different purpose.

The stats system does not have multiple purposes, you dont use a stat system to decide how to move around, you dont use a stat system to talk to your linkshell members, you dont use the stat system to teleport, because its not ment for those purposes.

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First off those different containers can cross into the same purposes, If i want a to take a drink outside and dispose of the container (i am assuming that's what you mean by bin it) more then one container can fit that same purpose: disposable cup, bottle, and even a carton.

the analogy is not even proportionately correct to a battle system, no system is perfect and you can not sit there and claim that there will never be another, better battle system sometime down the road.

Nothing is perfect and as soon as your release that the sooner you can see that this was a failure but the attempt was a noble one.