Dark Knight Megathread

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Originally Posted by Crater

Okay but this is a completely fictitious hypothetical

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Guess we're nitpicking hypotheticals now. K.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

-snip-

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As the other guy said, you are clearly determined to die on this hill and I do not have the energy to invest in bickering.
I've made my point, you deny it flat out or miss the point, you called me insane, I'm bowing out.

Purely focusing on the feedback I want to give to the devs directly, without having other players gatekeep it: DRK is the worst tank to heal in dungeons.

Two solutions to make Living Dead less of a "Benediction only" mechanic, perhaps even making the skill fun to use:

1. Reduce the healing required to remove Walking Dead from 100% of max health to 50%.
2. Add a buff to Walking Dead that increases all healing received by 100%.

Both accomplish the same goal of halving the healing needed to remove Walking Dead, but the first option potentially leaves the DRK with less HP after Walking Dead expires. That said, the first option may feel more "natural" to remove Walking Dead, as most healers upon seeing a tank hit 1hp will try to heal them enough to that they don't die when their invuln expires. Getting a tank to at least 50% HP may just come more naturally than fully healing a tank to 100% (especially in a 10-second window).

If Living dead hasn't been changed for the past 7 years, why would anyone think its going to change now?

The developers are clearly fine with it existing as "You die unless theres a WM with Benediction paying attention", and don't have an issue with that having a longer CD than Holmgang.

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

As the other guy said, you are clearly determined to die on this hill.

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The only "hill" I've made a hard stance on is that the only thing that matters to a defensive tool is its total healing+absorption (that there is no impact of a defensive's duration beyond what is already reflected in that total mitigation).

I've not called DRK's defensive kit fine. You alone are insisting that DRK's current kit must be seen as deserved by way of TBN alone rather that it could possibly be an oversight. Your reasoning relies on DRK, of all jobs, not facing an oversight.

Let's be clear, though, your hypothetical situation by which a single GCD of overhealing, as caused by having a shield rather than just percentile mitigation, would put a tank into a death spiral does not exist. If a shield skill and percentile DR skill both prevent the same amount of damage, that is the end of it; there is no more an inherent weakness to a shield over a percentile DR of the same total in-practice mitigation than an 800p direct heal as opposed to a 800p HoT. On the other hand, being able to keep a DRK up through double-pulls on oGCDs alone, same as any other tank, is normal practice for any competent DRK and healer (even Sage). Maybe actually level a DRK or find one who actually uses their defensives?

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you called me insane

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I called insane only your obsessive insistence on blaming for our lack of capacity in other areas a tool that has already proven itself not to be the reason for said problem (since it literally existed, unchanged, at no cost to those capacities before --those capacities even being increased upon DRK's being granted TBN). When you insist on saying "We can't have X because of Y" despite having previously had both X and Y and there having been no changes to Y, yeah, that reasoning is not sane.

"We can't have self-sustain because TBN." -> No, our highest self-healing was in the expansion that gave us TBN. They've clearly never been mutually exclusive.
"TBN covered up the problems with Living Dead." -> No, Living Dead complaint threads did not decrease between HW and Stormblood. They've clearly never been mutually exclusive.
"We can't have identity because of TBN." -> TBN coexisted with multiple combos, Dark Arts interactions, the greatest amount of vampiric healing we've ever had, a unique Delirium, Blood Price, and original Blood Weapon. It did not remove Low Blow, Reprisal, or Dark Dance; each was turned into a Role Action, as was a fourth of PLD's defensive kit and a sixth of Warrior's. TBN cannot be the limiting factor.

I don't get why it's so hard for you to believe that DRK might, just might, be suffering from a lack of attention, rather than solely because TBN is "so strong" that we're firmly not allowed anything more.

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Originally Posted by Pyitoechito

Two solutions to make Living Dead less of a "Benediction only" mechanic, perhaps even making the skill fun to use:

1. Reduce the healing required to remove Walking Dead from 100% of max health to 50%.
2. Add a buff to Walking Dead that increases all healing received by 100%.

Both accomplish the same goal of halving the healing needed to remove Walking Dead, but the first option potentially leaves the DRK with less HP after Walking Dead expires. That said, the first option may feel more "natural" to remove Walking Dead, as most healers upon seeing a tank hit 1hp will try to heal them enough to that they don't die when their invuln expires. Getting a tank to at least 50% HP may just come more naturally than fully healing a tank to 100% (especially in a 10-second window).

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Either one of these options need to be paired with “invulnerable status remains for 10 seconds after WD phase begins regardless of when cleanse occurs”.

That being said, the death mechanic is not fun and “but lore” is a slap in the face by Yoshi when you look at all the abilities that have been deleted, passed out and shuffled around in this game for the sake of appeasement alone.

Last thing I want to see is additional buttons at this point really. Shadowbringer and Oblation have pushed hotbar real estate to the brink already.
If you want to invent wholy new combos to suddenly work into the Dark Knight kit, then I hope it involves a lot of Reaper-esque hotswaps by action changes.

give drk an excog on oblation, living dead fixed

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Originally Posted by Oizen

If Living dead hasn't been changed for the past 7 years, why would anyone think its going to change now?

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Because MNK hadn't changed since launch, and now it has.

At this point, I almost feel like the devs are fu*king with us. They announced a DPS increase for PLD coming in the next patch but are completely silent about DRK's survivability, which has the most complaints by FAR of all the tanks. I'm half expecting them to give WAR more self heals before DRK gets fixed.

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Originally Posted by Xrison

At this point, I almost feel like the devs are fu*king with us. They announced a DPS increase for PLD coming in the next patch but are completely silent about DRK's survivability, which has the most complaints by FAR of all the tanks. I'm half expecting them to give WAR more self heals before DRK gets fixed.

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Don't think it as they're ignoring you, balance patches have never done re-works of jobs, exception of performing so bad.

At the same time Dragonsong Ultimate is coming in 6.1, and making wild changes can really end up with problems than solving, this is all schedule planned, I assume the rework would come 6.2 if I'm being realistic. If it's 6.1, then, ok was all planned.