New NMs

I am not arguing the fact that a "24 Hour" timed spawned NM wouldn't make gear rare, I'm arguing that their is no really compelling argument to make gear that rare anymore.

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Originally Posted by Visch

Well it's pretty obvious some people did not play when they go off screaming that if it popped every 24 hours it would be in the same time forever. If you don't know how any of that worked then I find it very hard to believe they even made to this content and have absolutely no experience with it.

Would inexperienced be a better word for you?

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I would just ignore those comments rather than bashing everyone ;)

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

I am not arguing the fact that a "24 Hour" timed spawned NM wouldn't make gear rare, I'm arguing that their is no really compelling argument to make gear that rare anymore.

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Seriously? So you believe that there is no reason to have REALLY rare gear?

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

I am not arguing the fact that a "24 Hour" timed spawned NM wouldn't make gear rare, I'm arguing that their is no really compelling argument to make gear that rare anymore.

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I have one, so the game is worth playing and doesn't become WoW.

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Originally Posted by Scarface

Seriously? So you believe that there is no reason to have REALLY rare gear?

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Absolutely. What is YOUR reasoning for wanting REALLY rare gear?

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Originally Posted by Visch

I have one, so the game is worth playing and doesn't become WoW.

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Go play Korean treadmill #6452, the adults are talking here.

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Originally Posted by Visch

I have one, so the game is worth playing and doesn't become WoW.

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How does rare gear make a game worth playing?

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

I am not arguing the fact that a "24 Hour" timed spawned NM wouldn't make gear rare, I'm arguing that their is no really compelling argument to make gear that rare anymore.

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There is an argument: Some hardcore players want some and they also pay for the game. They are part of the community and they need more than casuals to be kept entertained. And I also like to have some of those uber rare gear exist because it is something even casual can look forward to.

I would like to see the discussion evolve to how we can make everyone happy? Not one winnning side and one losing side!

Wow. People who support 24 hour pop NMs really need to go back in time and play more than FFXI. 21-24 are an awful game mechanic. If you need someone to tell you why... oh man.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

Absolutely. What is YOUR reasoning for wanting REALLY rare gear?

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To make people unique.
To have an ultimate "item" and/or "goal" that makes you strive to play, and be better everyday.
To have you, and your LS mates stand out from the rest of the server.
To show dedication and loyalty to your LS (Because some people stop playing after they get what they want)

There are a number of reasons...There's a few for you.

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Originally Posted by GreyJorildyn

Wow. People who support 24 hour pop NMs really need to go back in time and play more than FFXI. 21-24 are an awful game mechanic. If you need someone to tell you why... oh man.

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I'd love for you to tell me why it should not be implemented AT ALL. Not state pro's and con's. I agree we should have a balance of instance and 21-24hr pops. Some people just want all of 1 thing, and that's never good.

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Originally Posted by Carmillia

There is an argument: Some hardcore players want some and they also pay for the game. They are part of the community and they need more than casuals to be kept entertained. And I also like to have some of those uber rare gear exist because it is something even casual can look forward to.

I would like to see the discussion evolve to how we can make everyone happy? Not one winnning side and one losing side!

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Unfortunately, their is no compromise for them.

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Originally Posted by Scarface

To make people unique.
To have an ultimate "item" and/or "goal" that makes you strive to play, and be better everyday.
To have you, and your LS mates stand out from the rest of the server.
To show dedication and loyalty to your LS (Because some people stop playing after they get what they want)

There are a number of reasons...There's a few for you.

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1. I am unique because I am me. I don't need to camp some mob for 24 hours to get a piece of gear that will be obsolete with the next expansion pack.

2. My goal is to beat everything the game has to offer and will ever have to offer. Trying to 'get lucky' and get a claim on a mob that pops only once every 24 hours doesn't make me want to play.

3. My LS stands out because we do. Being the first to accomplish things sets us apart from the rest of the server.

4. Dedication does not equal camping the same mob at differing times to get a rare piece of equipment. Contrary to that, it shows selfishness that the only reason you have left to sign on is to continue questing for a piece of gear that is near impossible to get. Dedication is having everything you could possibly want and still signing on to help others get what they want.

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Originally Posted by Carmillia

There is an argument: Some hardcore players want some and they also pay for the game. They are part of the community and they need more than casuals to be kept entertained. And I also like to have some of those uber rare gear exist because it is something even casual can look forward to.

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Yea but these guys want the kind of rarity that only a small handful will ever get or at least until the level cap is raised.

They don't want casuals to get their grubby little hands on it at all.

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I have one, so the game is worth playing and doesn't become WoW.

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How many people do you know who own a legendary weapon/mount ?

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

1. I am unique because I am me. I don't need to camp some mob for 24 hours to get a piece of gear that will be obsolete with the next expansion pack.

2. My goal is to beat everything the game has to offer and will ever have to offer. Trying to 'get lucky' and get a claim on a mob that pops only once every 24 hours doesn't make me want to play.

3. My LS stands out because we do. Being the first to accomplish things sets us apart from the rest of the server.

4. Dedication does not equal camping the same mob at differing times to get a rare piece of equipment. Contrary to that, it shows selfishness that the only reason you have left to sign on is to continue questing for a piece of gear that is near impossible to get. Dedication is having everything you could possibly want and still signing on to help others get what they want.

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Okay, 1 youre not unique if you use Dodore Doublet to craft. Everyone does.

2. If your goal is to beat it, then camp it, kill it once? You beat the game.

3. Your LS doesn't stand out for killing it first. I had first Dodore Doublet on server for months. Who CARES?

4. Dedication is camping something or killing something that doesn't benefit you, for your LS mates, can't understand that?

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Originally Posted by Jinko

They don't want casuals to get their grubby little hands on it at all.

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Casuals can look forward to it. Sure. Get it first few months? No thanks.

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Originally Posted by Scarface

3. Your LS doesn't stand out for killing it first. I had first Dodore Doublet on server for months. Who CARES?.

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I bet it didn't stop you standing round Ul'dah showing it off when you first got it though, amiright ?

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Originally Posted by Jinko

I bet it didn't stop you standing round Ul'dah showing it off when you first got it though, amiright ?

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You're absolutely right, and if these NMs were done right, I'd still be standing in Ul'dah showing it off. Except now I just look like everyone else (3months later).

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Originally Posted by Carmillia

There is an argument: Some hardcore players want some and they also pay for the game. They are part of the community and they need more than casuals to be kept entertained. And I also like to have some of those uber rare gear exist because it is something even casual can look forward to.

I would like to see the discussion evolve to how we can make everyone happy? Not one winnning side and one losing side!

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24h timer on HNMS = / = only way to have rare gear.
I dont understand why people keep saying this is the only way to have rare gear.
Aegis shield ---> anything a HNM droped , to put just 1 example of many.

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Originally Posted by Scarface

You're absolutely right, and if these NMs were done right, I'd still be standing in Ul'dah showing it off. Except now I just look like everyone else (3months later).

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That'll change tomorrow. A couple months from now everyone will be wearing the stuff the new NMs drop instead of dodore doublets. Then you can be unique when you put yours on and be all "Hay guyz, remember when this was teh uber crftng geerz?" ^_^

The bottom line is nothing is epic if everyone has it, and there is no reason not to have some really rare spawns for the really hardcore players to kill.

Not everyone enjoys the easy, insta-success method mmos have adopted in the WoW era.

A game need a spectrum on content, not just casual content. If casuals do not want to camp for 3 days then don't... get gear at other events you can do on your playtime. But taking away the hardcore players chance to enjoy doing something is just stupid.

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Originally Posted by Zkieve

24h timer on HNMS = / = only way to have rare gear.
I dont understand why people keep saying this is the only way to have rare gear.
Aegis shield ---> anything a HNM droped , to put just 1 example of many.

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If they had stuff like relics in this game it would be great, but as soon as casual found out it would take the normal hardcore player 1-2 years min to finish the quest and a casual it would be near impossible they would all rage the same.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

The bottom line is nothing is epic if everyone has it, and there is no reason not to have some really rare spawns for the really hardcore players to kill.

Not everyone enjoys the easy, insta-success method mmos have adopted in the WoW era.

A game need a spectrum on content, not just casual content. If casuals do not want to camp for 3 days then don't... get gear at other events you can do on your playtime. But taking away the hardcore players chance to enjoy doing something is just stupid.

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Quoted for so much truth.

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Originally Posted by Zkieve

24h timer on HNMS = / = only way to have rare gear.
I dont understand why people keep saying this is the only way to have rare gear.
Aegis shield ---> anything a HNM droped , to put just 1 example of many.

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Again quoted for so much truth

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

If they had stuff like relics in this game it would be great, but as soon as casual found out it would take the normal hardcore player 1-2 years min to finish the quest and a casual it would be near impossible they would all rage the same.

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I think you misunderstand.
Most people are not saying " game should be for casual not hardcore".
What people are saying is the mechanic to have a NM pop every 24h giving only the people who log in at that time access to it is a poor mechanic and not fun.It has nothing to do with the casual vs hardcore debate, i dont really see the point.
Rare gear with multiple things to do to complete it (relics) or super mega hard instances ever with low drop rate and incredible good items is better and more fun than waiting for a HNM spawn .That is the bottom line for me.

edit; casuals crying should shuv it honestly, if you put more time you should be rewarded more.But at least i want to have a decent chance to make it there eventually threw effort and dedication. 24h spawns means only people with "luck"(for claiming) and extremely amounts of time will even get to fight this thins.Hardcore players to me means efficient players, so they will be able to do the hard battles efficiently , achiving what would take years to casuals only a few months.But at the very least casual should have a chance if they put enough time into it.Other wise you just alienate them.

Also with earning "rare" in other ways than 24h HNMs we eliminate the noobs who do not know jack but have a linkshell who do the work for them.God every time i saw a X person girlfriend who was a complete noob with good items i raged, and this is for the lack of difficulty on the fights, only in the claims or amount of people.

My wife played with me and she was better rdm than most of the " i r leet" rdms becouse she worked for her stuf, unlike people who would "earn points" being there doing nothin and geting the thins for just "being there".I do not want this again.If you are good you should have rare. if you arent you shouldnt.

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Originally Posted by Zkieve

super mega hard instances ever with low drop rate and incredible good items is better and more fun than waiting for a HNM spawn .That is the bottom line for me.

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That's your opinion and that is fine. This does not mean that we should not have 21-24hr NMs however.

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Originally Posted by Zkieve

I think you misunderstand.
Most people are not saying " game should be for casual not hardcore".
What people are saying is the mechanic to have a NM pop every 24h giving only the people who log in at that time access to it is a poor mechanic and not fun.It has nothing to do with the casual vs hardcore debate, i dont really see the point.
Rare gear with multiple things to do to complete it (relics) or super mega hard instances ever with low drop rate and incredible good items is better and more fun than waiting for a HNM spawn .That is the bottom line for me.

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spot on, nobody is asking for 1hp nm or some easy shit, people just don't want mindless crap like HNM camping.

You shouldn't have 21-24 hour HNMs. It's wasted effort on the devs' part. No one wants that ****. Look around you. There aren't even enough of you in this entire thread to even kill said HNM.

Perhaps if they spawned three times a day. NA primetime, EU primetime, and JP primetime it would be more reasonable.

But that would defeat the purpose of it being annoying to almost everyone but Scarface and his boys who bought fafnir egg timers and synchronized their schedules around it.

If Fafnir popped every day at 9pm in every region, fine. Everyone who wants to compete go out there at 8:45 EST. Get your psych up. Win or lose the claim. Stick around for the lolz and drama. Out of there by 10:15 pm EST until tomorrow.

THAT is HNM in 2011.

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Originally Posted by Poipori

spot on, nobody is asking for 1hp nm or some easy shit, people just don't want mindless crap like HNM camping.

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They want instances and no competition that drop 4 of the same thing so everyone can have it in 3 months.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

You shouldn't have 21-24 hour HNMs. It's wasted effort on the devs' part. No one wants that ****. Look around you. There aren't even enough of you in this entire thread to even kill said HNM.

Perhaps if they spawned three times a day. NA primetime, EU primetime, and JP primetime it would be more reasonable.

But that would defeat the purpose of it being annoying to almost everyone but Scarface and his boys who bought fafnir egg timers and synchronized their schedules around it.

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Completely unrelated, but I had a stopwatch that I dubbed the Lord of Onzozo stop watch ;v

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

You shouldn't have 21-24 hour HNMs. It's wasted effort on the devs' part. No one wants that ****. Look around you. There aren't even enough of you in this entire thread to even kill said HNM.

Perhaps if they spawned three times a day. NA primetime, EU primetime, and JP primetime it would be more reasonable.

But that would defeat the purpose of it being annoying to almost everyone but Scarface and his boys who bought fafnir egg timers and synchronized their schedules around it.

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If you a pimp and you know you don't love them hoes.

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Originally Posted by Visch

They want instances and no competition that drop 4 of the same thing so everyone can have it in 3 months.

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so you're implying that the only way to have competition is through HNM camping? lol

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

You shouldn't have 21-24 hour HNMs. It's wasted effort on the devs' part. There aren't even enough of you in this entire thread to even kill said HNM.

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I know how much you care about the dev's time. LOL! It's really not that hard to just make it pop less, really. There won't be any egg hunts! :P

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

There aren't even enough of you in this entire thread to even kill said HNM.

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LOL. I think you should be more concerned about the 8 person party limit for the NMs we already have.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Perhaps if they spawned three times a day. NA primetime, EU primetime, and JP primetime it would be more reasonable.

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For the 100th time dude. That would make ToD even harder to track. If you are so against a freakin' time sink then why would you want to wait 5 hours just to get a ToD then gather for ONE kill? If it was 21-24 it would be in your time for a week or so and everyone would know when it was.

There is no need for time zones because it moves with the window. But this makes it obvious you didn't play XI enough to understand that.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

But that would defeat the purpose of it being annoying to almost everyone but Scarface and his boys who bought fafnir egg timers and synchronized their schedules around it.

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I never even got anything from it, I was NIN and SAM only. I just want this game to be just as good as XI. :)

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Originally Posted by Visch

They want instances and no competition that drop 4 of the same thing so everyone can have it in 3 months.

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Whether everyone gets it in 3 months or 3 years, eventually everyone that wants one will have one. It'll all be just as meaningless when SE shuts the servers down.

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Originally Posted by Visch

For the 100th time dude. That would make ToD even harder to track. If you are so against a freakin' time sink then why would you want to wait 5 hours just to get a ToD then gather for ONE kill? If it was 21-24 it would be in your time for a week or so and everyone would know when it was. :)

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Fail.

"What time does Fafnir pop?"
"9pm est"
"But that was the pop time before the maintenance, what is it now?"
"9pm est."
"But I can't trackkkkk it now."
"It's always 9pm EST."

You don't even understand the discussion. You just run to the aery when your alarm goes off like a good harcore should.

What player tracks HNMS when they are designed to pop at 9pm in Europe, 9pm in North America, and 9pm in JP?

Just you dude. Just you.

replace bonbon with HNM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nojWJ6-XmeQ

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Originally Posted by Visch

They want instances and no competition that drop 4 of the same thing so everyone can have it in 3 months.

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no, we are asking for different degrees of rare items, and instead of 24h pop nms , relic type of rarity.
To be completely honest i would not cared if they put 24h nms , because i would not do them anyways, i cant commit that much time like i used to.But i understand why people do not want them.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Fail.

"What time does Fafnir pop?"
"9pm est"
"But that was the pop time before the maintenance, what is it now?"
"9pm est."
"But I can't trackkkkk it now."
"It's always 9pm EST."

You don't even understand the discussion. You just run to the aery when your alarm goes off like a good harcore should.

What player tracks HNMS when they are designed to pop at 9pm in Europe, 9pm in North America, and 9pm in JP?

Just you dude. Just you.

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This makes it a shit NM like what we have now... 3 times a day at the same time. Just because its 9pm JP doesn't mean NAs wont be all over it lol.

You completely missed the point of making gear rare. Completely.

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Originally Posted by Zkieve

To be completely honest i would not cared if they put 24h nms , because i would not do them anyways, i cant commit that much time like i used to.But i understand why people do not want them.

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It's not hard to design them to be relatively quick regional events. The problem you and Visch are having is that you can't imagine a HNM that isn't like you already know it to be.

If Fafnir spawned to the North Americans at 9PM EST, Europeans at 9PM GMT, and Japanese players at 9AM GMT every day, with shortened windows, you wouldn't need 3 hours to participate and an ultra flexible schedule.

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Originally Posted by Scarface

You completely missed the point of making gear rare. Completely.

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Peregrine misses every point.

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Originally Posted by Scarface

This makes it a shit NM like what we have now... 3 times a day at the same time. Just because its 9pm JP doesn't mean NAs wont be all over it lol.

You completely missed the point of making gear rare. Completely.

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Well then you represent an irrelevant minority of players who has no chance at being heard. Again, you just want to look pretty and force the crowd to look different from you, because it's the only way anyone would ever respect you and Visch.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

It's not hard to design them to be relatively quick regional events. The problem you and Visch are having is that you can't imagine a HNM that isn't like you already know it to be.

If Fafnir spawned to the North Americans at 9PM EST, Europeans at 9PM GMT, and Japanese players at 9AM GMT every day, with shortened windows, you wouldn't need 3 hours to participate and an ultra flexible schedule.

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And then the same LSs camps it three times a day and then what?

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Well then you represent an irrelevant minority of players who has no chance at being heard. Again, you just want to look pretty and force the crowd to look different from you, because it's the only way anyone would ever respect you and Visch.

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How can you speak like this when you come from Dips?

I just...I just cannot understand it. I could flame you so hard, but I wont. Back to topic... Having a NM spawn three times a day doesn't make gear rare. Seriously.

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Originally Posted by Scarface

And then the same LSs camps it three times a day and then what?

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<true strike > XDDDDDDD
personally i liked poped nms, with super-mega-hard to find/low drop pop items.
it is in the end much more fun and equally time consuming.

HNM 24h --> log on
/l did hnm died ? what time it poped ?
/l o damn its dead, o well ill log off wut is tod ? okay i got work at that time tomorrow, o well see ya later all!.

HNM poped.
/l log on Anyone wants to farm X item? okay meet at X place.
repeat for few days/weeks until get drop
/l pop fight , good luck on drop.

I would take second scenario personally on a heart beat.
Blhe ,in the end all depends how "hard " is to kill the mobs and how many people can kill them/complete the requirements.In few words, it depends on how good the developers are.making rare becouse it "pops" less often is a lazy way to develope "rare" and im not a fan of that.Lazy devs are lazy .