AFK Leveling

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Difference between me and a lot of players is I wouldn't ask a friend to drag me around and be my workhorse. Don't mix business with pleasure, otherwise are they really your friend.

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Well the difference between me and you (and a lot of players?) is I offered.

I figured I was going to do it myself why not offer to let a friend tag along for some SP since I don't lose any myself (well a marginal amount) and that way we meet our goals together, level together for longer and have more fun together overall instead of me being 20 levels ahead and waiting for them to catch up (or leveling new jobs simply to play with them when I want to play the job I enjoy playing).

You know what? It works great. We have a lot of fun. Sometimes I AFK follow them. Sometimes they follow me. Everyone wins. No one's skill is suffering either (though I love that clause) because we all use abilities from jobs we're familiar with. We also have plenty of days where no one AFKs and everyone pulls their weight (and we get done faster).

It's a give and take system and I think that's more about being friends than "Do it yourself."

That's the difference between me and you, I guess - or at least another obvious difference.

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You do not deserve that reward. Your "friend" does.

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The reward my "friend" gets is that tomorrow he can level with me again. We're in the same level range, we have the same Guildleves, we team up and link again. It's really quite the reward. You should try getting yourself some "friends" and see how it goes.

Honestly, I can't believe how much something that doesn't affect you in any way bothers you so much. I'm giving lots of reasons why this is a good, wholesome, cooperative effort for friends to stay within range of each other and have a good time and you're still preaching ethics.

(v sarcasm)
By the way "ethics" is a system of moral principles, so nothing to do with morals at all.
You're right.
(^sarcasm)

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Difference between me and a lot of players is I wouldn't ask a friend to drag me around and be my workhorse. Don't mix business with pleasure, otherwise are they really your friend.

We have so many bot-crafters on wutai that a good quarter of the products on the market shouldn't even be there. On any given night you can crawl the corners of Uldah and find some prominent player picking at large quantities of iron ore. Bunch of cheating wannabes. Starting to be the same way with jobs.

Same thing with getting discounts from friends. Why screw a friend out of what a stranger would give them? Are they not your friend? Give them more. They'll refuse to take more because you're their friend, then you end up giving them either the market price for their service or you give each other free things. In the end, same difference. I just prefer straight market price because that automatically corrects for any tit for tat imbalance.

Too many leeches make too much use of the "friends get discounts" clause. That's an ethical violation.
Same way with this. You know many players will try to take more than they receive out of this.

This is not about morals. This is an ethical concern. AFK advancement is an ethics issue. You do not deserve that reward. Your "friend" does.

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on my server botters dont even hide, they'll sit right in the middle of the road =p

What's the difference between AFK leveling and offline leveling ?
I don't see any reason to turn my PC all the AFK time on.

Wait, maybe this is what Yoshi was talking about the new battle system ?

I am pretty sure this has been mentioned so sorry about the repeat but. Has anyone thought maybe they are Gilseller/Account seller, linkshells and they are doing this to farm in as much gil as possible and then get those r50 characters and sell them off for more money?

Also another term for this is not AFK leveling its Power Leveliing just like in XI but now.... a High ranked person can kill your mobs for you and you still get great SP. I have been in a party like this because our friend that was PLing us was wanting us to get r20 CON so that we can have cure 2 and be a bit more self relient as Melee classes. I might be tarnished reputation in this but ohhhhh nooooo I was not on auto follow I was running around talking and everything but the mobs were such a higher level than us we were told to stay out of fights and away so we didnt get killed. I think this is okay, except I find it weird that sp is not hurt as much as it was in XI.

On the regards of it being actually what looks to me in this discussion is RMT actions.

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Originally Posted by Xmbei

I am pretty sure this has been mentioned so sorry about the repeat but. Has anyone thought maybe they are Gilseller/Account seller, linkshells and they are doing this to farm in as much gil as possible and then get those r50 characters and sell them off for more money?

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oh wow. it went from someone being on autofollow while using the bathroom as opposed to autofollowing while afk an extended period of time to this? if they are doing it to sell the account it is against the tos therefore it is already covered. there would be no rule needed to be made to stop it.

Yes, yes it is against the ToS, but that has and never will stop Gil Sellers and Account sellers. There is still a market of MUST HAVE IT NOW, GIVE IT TO ME! I NEED MY GILZ AND R50!!!! people that don't like to work for the goal and have a sense of achievement, they would rather buy it and not have to do the work. Also people can have their own account and pay the gilseller/account sellers to Power Level their character to predetermined rank, just because they don't want to do it. It is a festering sickness in the MMO market that no matter what you do it will always be there.

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Originally Posted by Xmbei

Yes, yes it is against the ToS, but that has and never will stop Gil Sellers and Account sellers. There is still a market of MUST HAVE IT NOW, GIVE IT TO ME! I NEED MY GILZ AND R50!!!! people that don't like to work for the goal and have a sense of achievement, they would rather buy it and not have to do the work. Also people can have their own account and pay the gilseller/account sellers to Power Level their character to predetermined rank, just because they don't want to do it. It is a festering sickness in the MMO market that no matter what you do it will always be there.

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and once again how would you go about fixing it?

get rid of people auto-following? this will in turn hurt people that are just going to the bathroom as well as people multi-boxing, which is not against the rules.

take away the sp for the fights? if someone has been in party for hours and have to use the bathroom there is no need to penalize them for needing a potty break or answer their phone.

leave it to gm's descretion? then innocent people will eventually wind up getting penalized on a whim without getting facts.

the point was that they already have rules in effect to combat these issues and just because they are not being enforced at this point does not mean more rules that could hurt the innocent should be made.

if someone goes afk for an extended period of time and is not active why not just put an icon besde their name to show afk. that way the leader could just do his/her job and oust them in case they didn't notice they had been afk a while. the oust from party option is the best way to go about handling afk leechers.

Exactly that's what I was trying to say as well. You can't fix afk leveling, if you do you will be punishing the whole community, and innocent people. I don't know why someone was complaining about people that they don't party with and don't effect their SP intake. If it is obvious that they look like gilsellers which is usually r20+ people wearing starting gear, report them to the STF, then the STF will track their behavior and determine if they are actually gilsellers and go back to their IP and block them. If it is innocent people.... as it might be 50% so, I state again it doesnt actually affect people like the OP unless you are actually in that person's party which doesn't sound like that is the case. Why are you worrying about what they do? It only visually effects your game play but not your experience.

exactly, that's how we treat in on my ls. if someone is always active in parties for hours at a time and has to use the restroom we just say "target me til you get back and i'll drag ya along", but if they are leaving for an extended period of time we say "just go to the camp and we'll leave you a spot in the party for when you get back".

the point is we don't mind covering for you for a few minutes, but will not drag you for 30. if you autofollow me without saying anything, i will be the first to admit, i will take you to the toughest aggro mob i can find then log out on you. don't expect me to get you levels. if you need a break to use the restroom just tell me and i will do it gladly, but don't just put me on autofollow and expect me to get your ranks for you.

there was a guy in broken water that was bad about joining behests and setting the next person to join behest on autofollow then follow the whole behest then do it again the next. 3 behests in a row we drug him to the diremites and let him die before making the first kill and left him there.

Lol awesome ya the behest afk leveling is bad. I will admit though.... i would rather have an afk leveler in a behest party then people that run off and kill non red named mobs in the behest, and won't listen to the rest of the party on organization, leading to tons of lost SP.