DPS who pull mobs

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Originally Posted by Artemiz

I dont know how you guys are having such problems with basic conversation skills but I've never really had any problems just asking groups what they want at the start of a run. I dont see bickering, or sulking or people falling out. What happens is after a question or two people just get on with it. I see no need to start kicking people when a simple question is more than enough. Just play nice kiddies, its not hard.

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Yeah my social skills are not up the standard of someone else in my age rage. Even so I think your disagreement stems from the notion that you think being removed from a group is inherently a bad thing. That is the problem many people have they take being removed as a personal attack instead of just seeing it as whelp guess I just did not mesh with those players better luck next time.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

I was recently sitting in a casual FC call with someone I didn't know very well who was trying to get away with running a dungeon in glamour gear. The tank in their DF group noticed and asked flatly in chat if they had any better gear, to which the person flipped, raged in call, unequipped the rest of their gear and started griefing the dungeon on purpose and evaded getting kicked until the tank left and ate a penalty.

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Thats obviously ridiculous and the person should have been kicked, its far from common though.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Yeah my social skills are not up the standard of someone else in my age rage. Even so I think your disagreement stems from the notion that you think being removed from a group is inherently a bad thing. That is the problem many people have they take being removed as a personal attack instead of just seeing it as whelp guess I just did not mesh with those players better luck next time.

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Get salty all you want mate, its not me having these problems.

And yes, I think kicking people for not performing to your ideal of a dungeon run and bending to your will is petty and dickish. This isn't the above example of clearly undergeared players or poor behaviour, it's a rather minor disagreement about pull size. In your own words its not even about time investment, you want fun your way or the highway. You enter a random dungeon with a random group of players and the insist everything caters to your taste. The only thing that's confusing here is your surprised that you are running into problems with that attitude.

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Originally Posted by Artemiz

Thats obviously ridiculous and the person should have been kicked, its far from common though.



Get salty all you want mate, its not me having these problems.

And yes, I think kicking people for not performing to your ideal of a dungeon run and bending to your will is petty and dickish. This isn't the above example of clearly undergeared players or poor behaviour, it's a rather minor disagreement about pull size. In your own words its not even about time investment, you want fun your way or the highway. You enter a random dungeon with a random group of players and the insist everything caters to your taste. The only thing that's confusing here is your surprised that you are running into problems with that attitude.

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Far from salty just having an open discussion with ya. Though not sure if the salty comment was sarcasm or not.

Funny thing I only run into people that are against it on the forums in game as I said most groups just remove the player being slow. I am not bending the group to my will as I said either it passes or it does not. If it does not have I choice to make leave or conform though by in large most groups agree and we go on with our day.

Getting removed is not a personal attack it is just a choice that a group makes if they do not want to play with someone. Not sure how that is petty not like I can remove someone with just my vote.

In the end it is a weird dynamic if the vote passes doesn't that mean the group was in favor? So what is the problem follow your mindset the group spoke and just used the vote system instead of words. If the group wanted to go fast but just went along with the pace of the person being slow doesn't that mean the person being slow imposed their will on the rest of the group. Though in there case it is okay because it is a roulette yet the same is not true for the other side? It is a roulette you may get a group that wants to go fast or you may get one that wants to go slow. Why does the one that wants to go slow get the benefit of the doubt but the one that wants to go quick is told they should just go at the slower pace.

No need to cater to the weakest link when you can just remove said link.

I also greatly enjoy these kind of discussions because it allows me to try and gain a better understand on how others view something. It is fun for me so once again if I am coming off as salty or annoyed not my intent I find this conversation enlightening. Cause generally the people I play with think the same. Sometimes they kick some then ask for someone to fill in over discord. That is just how we play. So seeing how others handle situations is cool.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Far from salty just having an open discussion with ya. Though not sure if the salty comment was sarcasm or not.

Funny thing I only run into people that are against it on the forums in game as I said most groups just remove the player being slow. I am not bending the group to my will as I said either it passes or it does not. If it does not have I choice to make leave or conform though by in large most groups agree and we go on with our day.

Getting removed is not a personal attack it is just a choice that a group makes if they do not want to play with someone. Not sure how that is petty not like I can remove someone with just my vote.

In the end it is a weird dynamic if the vote passes doesn't that mean the group was in favor? So what is the problem follow your mindset the group spoke and just used the vote system instead of words. If the group wanted to go fast but just went along with the pace of the person being slow doesn't that mean the person being slow imposed their will on the rest of the group. Though in there case it is okay because it is a roulette yet the same is not true for the other side? It is a roulette you may get a group that wants to go fast or you may get one that wants to go slow. Why does the one that wants to go slow get the benefit of the doubt but the one that wants to go quick is told they should just go at the slower pace.

No need to cater to the weakest link when you can just remove said link.

I also greatly enjoy these kind of discussions because it allows me to try and gain a better understand on how others view something. It is fun for me so once again if I am coming off as salty or annoyed not my intent I find this conversation enlightening. Cause generally the people I play with think the same. Sometimes they kick some then ask for someone to fill in over discord. That is just how we play. So seeing how others handle situations is cool.

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You seem to have a very high standard for DF groups, in another thread you said you left because the healer didn't use sprint between pulls. If that's your standard then cool but you'd probably find PF a better tool than DF. You do impose those standards on others though, by firstly pulling for the tank then kicking them ASAP. Im not a fan of that approach personally and while I obviously have standards I relax them considerably in DF content as random groups are random. If the party can clear the content and nobody is taking the piss then I take what I get.

I can honestly say I've never been kicked from a duty but it doesn't take a master in psychology to imagine for some people it would be quite upsetting or at least damage their confidence, especially on a job like tank where confidence is the greatest barrier to many people trying it. I don't really see the need to do that to someone if the biggest complaint you have is their pull size is quite as much fun as you want it to be.

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Originally Posted by Artemiz

You seem to have a very high standard for DF groups, in another thread you said you left because the healer didn't use sprint between pulls. If that's your standard then cool but you'd probably find PF a better tool than DF. You do impose those standards on others though, by firstly pulling for the tank then kicking them ASAP. Im not a fan of that approach personally and while I obviously have standards I relax them considerably in DF content as random groups are random. If the party can clear the content and nobody is taking the piss then I take what I get.

I can honestly say I've never been kicked from a duty but it doesn't take a master in psychology to imagine for some people it would be quite upsetting or at least damage their confidence, especially on a job like tank where confidence is the greatest barrier to many people trying it. I don't really see the need to do that to someone if the biggest complaint you have is their pull size is quite as much fun as you want it to be.

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I mean in that case I left because in higher level content they asked what sprint was. So as I said either they were trolling or just that bad and in either case not my cup of tea. Personally I do not think I have generally high standards though I guess for some it may come off that way.

I do get that I probably would get better luck just queuing with friends and for the most part I do, but when I do run solo and get a group I do think it is inherently wrong to try and exercise the ability to use the vote kick function. I guess that is where my confusion is drawn from. Why is it so wrong to remove someone. Sure someone may feel slighted but that was not my intent and I do not think I should be responsible for someone projecting their own feelings as my intent. I am not saying someone should not feel the way they do if removed. Though I do not think those feelings should be marked as the intent for the removal. I have been removed without asking twice. Once when I first started playing and I got removed for being the only one without AoE at the lower levels. I was annoyed but I understood that they had a certain desire and that was cool with me no hard feelings. Second I honestly forgot think it was for being semi afk in msq. That being said for the most part if a vote does not pass or I do not feel like putting up with something I just leave. I do not think that is having unreasonable standards. I just do not like putting up with others all that much. Do not get me wrong I am an ass and have kicked people for pretty reasons. With my friends we have kicked non lalafell's before and in those cases I would agree I am being dick, and imposing our will on someone because we had the cards stack in our favor.

Though in the cases of small pull size or whatever if the group votes yes I do think people should just see it as the same as a roulette being a roulette. You do not know what you are getting.

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Originally Posted by Awha

I mean in that case I left because in higher level content they asked what sprint was. So as I said either they were trolling or just that bad and in either case not my cup of tea. Personally I do not think I have generally high standards though I guess for some it may come off that way.

I do get that I probably would get better luck just queuing with friends and for the most part I do, but when I do run solo and get a group I do think it is inherently wrong to try and exercise the ability to use the vote kick function. I guess that is where my confusion is drawn from. Why is it so wrong to remove someone. Sure someone may feel slighted but that was not my intent and I do not think I should be responsible for someone projecting their own feelings as my intent. I am not saying someone should not feel the way they do if removed. Though I do not think those feelings should be marked as the intent for the removal. I have been removed without asking twice. Once when I first started playing and I got removed for being the only one without AoE at the lower levels. I was annoyed but I understood that they had a certain desire and that was cool with me no hard feelings. Second I honestly forgot think it was for being semi afk in msq. That being said for the most part if a vote does not pass or I do not feel like putting up with something I just leave. I do not think that is having unreasonable standards. I just do not like putting up with others all that much. Do not get me wrong I am an ass and have kicked people for pretty reasons. With my friends we have kicked non lalafell's before and in those cases I would agree I am being dick, and imposing our will on someone because we had the cards stack in our favor.

Though in the cases of small pull size or whatever if the group votes yes I do think people should just see it as the same as a roulette being a roulette. You do not know what you are getting.

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You know, I feel like you've managed to answer your own question on "Why is it so wrong to remove someone" while simultaneously being an example of the old saying "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should."

I'll leave it to you to connect the dots. If you can manage to unfurl yourself from your yarn of confusion lol.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

It's difficult to overstate how insane people can be on the NA datacenters. People sometimes go NUCLEAR over extremely mundane interactions, and a lot of people would rather just kick than risk the potential of dealing with an unhinged person having a bad day.

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Sometimes I wonder about this too. I'm in Tonberry and played close to almost 3000 hours right now and I very rarely if ever had seen anyone making a big fuss about DF group being "too fast" or "too slow", everyone seems to be just doing ok with whatever flow is happening on the screen.

Votekicking someone for being slow--if they're not trolling, that is--is just mindblowing to me. Like, damn, chill out a bit.

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Originally Posted by Awha

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I guess my issue with a vote kick under those circumstances is it's very easy to misunderstand the intent behind it, even if it is benign. You haven't really said how much dialogue you have before kicking, if any. The impression I've got from your posts though is you had non, so the person kicked has no way of knowing why.

Im generally a confident person and don't take things too personally, if I get kicked on a tank? I wouldn't care, its my comfort zone job. Im also confident as a DPS so other than having to queue again I probably wouldn't flinch. On a healer though? Oh man, I leveled those jobs up years ago and I know its my weak spot, Im not a confident healer at all so if I got "constructive criticism" I would suck it up as a necessary evil, even if delivered with a sledgehammer. If I just got kicked with no warning I would probably drop healer for good, a mixture of embarrassment and anxiety would just stop me playing it. There are probably plenty of people who feel like that with tanking so I'd rather not be the guy who contributes to that.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

You know, I feel like you've managed to answer your own question on "Why is it so wrong to remove someone" while simultaneously being an example of the old saying "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should."

I'll leave it to you to connect the dots. If you can manage to unfurl yourself from your yarn of confusion lol.

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Yeah I never bought into just because you can does not mean you should. If I did I would not use act or have multiple plots.

If something is allowed I see no harm in doing it.

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Originally Posted by Artemiz

I guess my issue with a vote kick under those circumstances is it's very easy to misunderstand the intent behind it, even if it is benign. You haven't really said how much dialogue you have before kicking, if any. The impression I've got from your posts though is you had non, so the person kicked has no way of knowing why.

Im generally a confident person and don't take things too personally, if I get kicked on a tank? I wouldn't care, its my comfort zone job. Im also confident as a DPS so other than having to queue again I probably wouldn't flinch. On a healer though? Oh man, I leveled those jobs up years ago and I know its my weak spot, Im not a confident healer at all so if I got "constructive criticism" I would suck it up as a necessary evil, even if delivered with a sledgehammer. If I just got kicked with no warning I would probably drop healer for good, a mixture of embarrassment and anxiety would just stop me playing it. There are probably plenty of people who feel like that with tanking so I'd rather not be the guy who contributes to that.

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Nah you are right I am a general silent kick person. I can see that I remember one person recently said god not you again. While tanking I was doing W2W and it confused me why they had an issue with me since they never said anything prior and when I asked they never responded. It did eat at me for an hour or so since I wondered what I could have done. So I can see how anxiety may play a role, but at that point it is on me and I doubt that was the persons intent. Mostly likely that person thinks nothing of me or if they do they just bash me amongst their friends, or just think I am in idiot wearing a school girl outfit as a male.

Who knows though I can understand you general desire to treat others they way you wish to be treated, and as such how my stance would go against that.

I guess for me even if it annoys me I guess I do not care enough about the person per se. I am pretty quick to take blame for something even if it is not my fault. I one of those types that apologizes for everything I know that seems weird considering my stance. I am Not a very logically constant person.

Though I do have a better understanding where you are coming from and I will try to keep it in mind next time I run into such a situation.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Yeah I never bought into just because you can does not mean you should. If I did I would not use act or have multiple plots.

If something is allowed I see no harm in doing it.

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Honestly, your moral compass is truly a sight to behold. And I'm not quite sure how I feel about that myself. It's kinda like Jack Sparrow's compass from Pirates of the Caribbean...all over the dang place. It's almost impressive how much it swivels around.