Child-like characters?

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Originally Posted by Alacran

Not enough resource for new races... Looking at Verminion, Diadem, Eureka...


Glad to see their resources are going to what players really want and focus on.

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You're making a common mistake here, by assuming that their ressources basically work like money - in the sense that you can spend them on whatever you like.

In reality dev-team doesnt work like that - a battle-designer who now might spend time on dungeons, raids, Eureka etc. cant just be called over and be told "here, design new gear!"
And one of the artists cant be called over to programm the new launcher and so on and so on.

While I personally disliked Eureka and Diadem, I know that infact a lot of people wanted some open-world-feel-like content instead of just another dungeon. I also admire them for at least trying new types of content, even if those might not work out straight away or arent liked by everyone. People are already upset by them repeating the same pattern over and over again and while I think certain parts should just stay as a basis (tomestonegear, 8-man-Savage, some alternative ways to get decent gear), I'd be pretty bored and unhappy if all they ever did was give us 3 new dungeons per patch and call it a day.
I much rather have them come up with new ideas and concepts, even if not all of them work out or are to everyones taste.

...all of that in addition to what Lersayil said: Adding a new race not only means adjusting over 10.000 pieces of gear but also all of the future gear they're going to add. And again: Thats not a job everyone in their team could do. I doubt that the people developing Ultimate could adjust headpieces to fit Viera just as well.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

snip.

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So a few things - First, most glamour (if not all that Im aware of) post ARR is identical for lalafells as with other races unless there is a specific issue in the model that prevents it. Meaning that theyve long since abandoned that thought process from your ARR art book in favor of just having one look for females and another for males. Maybe at one point that was their thought process but they dont practice it now. It could be for a variety of reasons: Budget concerns (the most obvious), fan feedback (fans want to wear similar outfits and were not happy that lalafell designs purposefully forced the child look), or that designing the outfits to be more tame only ends up reinforcing that lalafells are child analogues and is not consistent with other aspects of the lore. I think the last one has some merit because if you say "Oh, were gonna be more careful with what we reveal on this race model, even though we swear theyre not child analogues", it comes across as being contradictory. By doing this, its a tacit understanding on the devs part that the race are specifically designed to be children or close to it.

It's worth considering that the game, even in ARR, very quickly and clearly illustrated that despite their appearance, lalafells are more or less adults. In game NPCs and interactions depict pretty quickly and theyre not shy about it. As an example, there was a quest (I believe for valentines day...) where a male Hyur wanted to date Momodi Modi. It wasnt implied or an off hand thing, he literally walks into frame and confesses his love kind of deal. IIRC she turns him down cause she thinks he's to young. The game isnt shy about displaying lalafells as adults and that seems to be the devs position as of right now, despite their appearance or how certain demographics of the player base feel.

Im gonna play devils advocate and say something controversial. THIS IS JUST A THOUGHT, not an endorsement or suggestion of what should be.

Which is more important? That a character appears to be old enough despite them being actually under age, or a character who appears underage but is actually old? I think the answer is a matter of perspective and which ever way you choose comes with complications. I dont think most people would be ok with a child character being put in adult situations despite them looking like an adult. But at the same time, there cant be adult characters who have a 'child like appearance' be in those situations? What is naturally assumed by most people is the difference between the two comes down to experience with age - the adult (despite appearances) is expected to be in command of their actions and responsible to themselves and those around them, where children dont have that ability or experience.

In this light, it would seem strange to advocate (or turn a blind eye atleast) for explicitly stated children characters who can pass for adults, but then condemn adult characters who pass as children. Now whether we should have adult characters who can pass for kids is up for debate, but if the answer to that is no, then in this case FFXIV devs would need to up the appearance of characters who can pass for kids to meet that criteria (meaning they need to change lalafell models if that is the argument being presented, along with any race/model who can fall into this - so miqote and AuRa as well). When considering this, it seems the devs position, however, is that the appearance of the character is less important than the stated age. As a point, they would be uncomfortable with characters that are explicitly stated to be children to be in the hands of Player control, compared to adult characters who happen to appear child like be in the hands of players.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

You're making a common mistake here, by assuming that their ressources basically work like money - in the sense that you can spend them on whatever you like.

In reality dev-team doesnt work like that - a battle-designer who now might spend time on dungeons, raids, Eureka etc. cant just be called over and be told "here, design new gear!"
And one of the artists cant be called over to programm the new launcher and so on and so on.

While I personally disliked Eureka and Diadem, I know that infact a lot of people wanted some open-world-feel-like content instead of just another dungeon. I also admire them for at least trying new types of content, even if those might not work out straight away or arent liked by everyone. People are already upset by them repeating the same pattern over and over again and while I think certain parts should just stay as a basis (tomestonegear, 8-man-Savage, some alternative ways to get decent gear), I'd be pretty bored and unhappy if all they ever did was give us 3 new dungeons per patch and call it a day.
I much rather have them come up with new ideas and concepts, even if not all of them work out or are to everyones taste.

...all of that in addition to what Lersayil said: Adding a new race not only means adjusting over 10.000 pieces of gear but also all of the future gear they're going to add. And again: Thats not a job everyone in their team could do. I doubt that the people developing Ultimate could adjust headpieces to fit Viera just as well.

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I do understand a battle programmer is not the same as an asset creator, however at the end of the day each team is comprised of an individual with specific skills, knowledge, and paycheck... If the battle content programming team is making forgettable, substandard content ( more likely a content think tank ) then that's a financial draw that isn't panning out. It would make more sense then to place more individuals in the art asset/ development teams that acquiesce to player base demand, or come up with better equipment/ character design that removes the issue over complicated gear adaptation to more unique races/ body styles.

Or port the whole new engine to finally break free of the patch work fix that was 2.0 for 1.0. The art teams said as much at the last fan fest. They are actively having to work around the constraints of an engine hodgepodged together to form 2.0.

To stay relevant to topic... No child like characters for the player base. Ever.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I still think Urianger is our prime would-be autistic character. Not just "socially awkward" but in specific ways - odd speech pattern, specific interests, highly intelligent but hasn't realised that you don't greet people by quoting obscure prophecy at them...

A-Ruhn doesn't really come off as "odd" in the same way - not that I remember noticing, anyway.

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I could see that, but Urianger come across more as just someone with a high intellect and reserved emotions, not someone who doesn't know how to express themselves. Our interactions with him in Shadowbringers demonstrates this.

A-Ruhn on the other hand is sorta awkward each time you talk with him. Raya-O tries to cover for him by saying he's still young and inexperienced. But if he is so gifted at his job, why is he inexperienced? Being 18 aside. Our interactions with him have him being somewhat "rude", with him solely focused on his "job". Its actually his interactions with Echiva that throw him for a bit of a loop and seems to have him coming out of his shell some. He even decides to venture out into the world with her to get out of himself.

I'm saying he is autistic, but the lore book says he can hear the elementals better than his fellow man. Which sounds like someone who is in touch with inanimate object or animals over real people.

Reading more comments here, still has me scratching my head at all the fuss.

I still don't think a child character can kill off a franchise. Not when entertainment has been making a fortune off of young characters for years. Jurrasic Park has plenty of scenes where the kids are seconds away from being eaten alive by dinosaurs. Harry Potter has forever thrown the main character, face first, into all sorts of chaos. And then there's series like Twilight that follows a teen falling in love with vampires whos looks don't really age. It is like, if every other form of entertainment can pull this off and not deal with any backlash, I highly doubt this game will all of the sudden go up in flames. At worst we will see some naysayers say their piece but eventually, they will get bored and move on to the next thing that's bugging them.

I mean, people were trying to argue that Alisaie was coming off too strong towards the WoL but in the end, just as many argued that they did not see it that way. The same can be said for the Exarch, Aymeric and Hauchefant. Not everyone saw them as a flirty bunch. I took them as big brothers and overly protective little sister and that was it. I mean has no one ever asked their sibling (if you have one)to grab a bite to eat to catch up with one another or something?

I'm not in the camp that specifically cares about the age of a character. For me, it's about aesthetics. But at the same time, I wouldn't care if they did add one in. The stories I grew up with from both American pop culture to anime made me practically immune to a kid going through life or death situations. Instead, my emotions during those stories focused more on the "just because you're a kid, does not mean you can't achieve the unexpected". And I love it when stories use that, or something like it as the drive behind the story. It definitely helped me realized that somewhere out there in the real world kids have to deal with this all the time from diseases to war. No one wishes a life of war or disease on anyone but if you have to go through it then you can only learn to be brave and people will cheer you on or help if they can.

It's a PR nightmare, mostly. They've already banned someone for using a disgusting mod on Ryne (who is what? 12? 13?), which means that there will be people using those mods if they do become playable. Then there's the whole ERP situation, which is another thing I'm sure SE do not want to deal with (but probably will because of laws in certain countries).

I was going to say just do what they do with lalafells but most lalas are pretty upset about their bikinis

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Originally Posted by Nestama

It's a PR nightmare, mostly. They've already banned someone for using a disgusting mod on Ryne (who is what? 12? 13?), which means that there will be people using those mods if they do become playable. Then there's the whole ERP situation, which is another thing I'm sure SE do not want to deal with (but probably will because of laws in certain countries).

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Rule 34 will always exist, no matter what you do. While the mod mentioned is of poor taste, I would argue that they are tame, harmless... and also largely meaningless waste of time when you can find uh... very explicit and legal content of the same level (but mostly waaay worse) on the internet... OR SO I'VE BEEN TOLD BY A FRIEND.

Mods like this exist in any popular enough game. You could say its a milestone in popularity. Personally I think being upset with it or worried about the backlash is meaningless from both developers and players.

As for ERP? I find it distasteful, but also harmless as long as I'm given the proper in game tools to avoid the parties involved.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

It's a PR nightmare, mostly. They've already banned someone for using a disgusting mod on Ryne (who is what? 12? 13?), which means that there will be people using those mods if they do become playable. Then there's the whole ERP situation, which is another thing I'm sure SE do not want to deal with (but probably will because of laws in certain countries).

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PR is a big part of it, but again, it gets back to why there are 'exceptions' to the stances they take and that inconsistency.

As for ERP itself, I dont think theyll do anything about that as long as its not overt. That is generally a player interaction between two or more willing participants in a private chat. While it may be cringy or frowned upon, it's not harmful in that if both parties involved are willing and no shenanigans is going on. At that point, its pretty much let people do their thing and keep your nose out of it if nothing 'illegal' is taking place.

I was thinking maybe make them rp only, not be able to join dungeons, like a limited race, but then I thought like please no this community is already messed up enough...
I find it pretty disturbing things like this get suggested at all.
The 1st thing people will do is give them the Nier pants for a bigger butt because everyone things they're super funny lately.