It's past time, Yoshi-P...

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Unfortunately, this game has no curve. It jumps from laughably easy to occasionally moderate to extreme.

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This is pretty much the perfect TLDR for the point I was trying to make a page earlier <3

Early ARR had a curve but I guess the devs lost their nerve with the Pharos Sirius backlash and have never gotten it back since.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

My 2 cents:

Tanking roulettes is an exercise in frustration, you have arguably the most responsibility but you get the least reward for playing above par. An incredible tank will enable a good group to do great things in dungeons, but if the group is awful, there's not a huge amount you can do about it beyond adjusting the pace accordingly.

Healing can also be rather frustrating, but IMHO the gameplay is far more rewarding across a much broader range of groups. *snip*

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Sebazy! /joy

Wait. We're talking about tanking now? Cool!

I agree with your assessment. Healing is much more rewarding due to its ability to adapt to the proficiency of the rest of the players in a group. Tanking cannot carry a group quite the same way.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

My 2 cents:

Tanking roulettes is an exercise in frustration, you have arguably the most responsibility but you get the least reward for playing above par. An incredible tank will enable a good group to do great things in dungeons, but if the group is awful, there's not a huge amount you can do about it beyond adjusting the pace accordingly.

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Tanking in this game is braindead. Being a good tank just means being overgeared for the content, staying in DPS stance as much as possible, and popping the correct cooldown for the single big hits that come infrequently. Tanks don't have to stun, they rarely tank swap, they have very little positioning duties, and tank enmity management is the cotank hitting shirk and the main tank adding their enmity combo in as little as possible. Many times your co-tank is just there as a fifth DPS.

Tanking in dungeons is just knowing the proper times to stop running, and managing your resource bars to use your aoe attacks proper, while hoping the healer can keep up with you. The "amazing" things is at best a minute shaved off the total time of a run, and that's only if the healer can handle you pulling wall to wall. Tanks are probably the easiest job to play in this game in most content.

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Originally Posted by Tridus

Yup. Remember back when MP management was a thing? Good times. Things have gotten simpler over time, and now we're in a situation where spells like Cure don't really have a purpose because there's no reason to use it over Cure 2 except MP efficiency... which doesn't matter since it's so easy to never run out of MP (unless you're casting Raise a lot).

On the healer end, the biggest problem is that healing is too strong relative to HP pools. You can burst a party from 1HP to full in a matter of seconds, at which point if they're not getting blasted back down immediately, you're done. A rebalance on this end would need an across the board HPS nerf, but they've been going the opposite direction all of Stormblood.

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Blizzard attempted to address the exact same problem. They nerfed healing spells and mana pools so the party had to work with the healer to get through the content. Sadly, it was a disaster because tanks and damage dealers refused to change their ways leading to numerous wipes and kicking of healers. This in turn led to the Great Healer Drought.™

Now, with that said, I think there is something to the idea. Surely, wouldn't the game be improved by reining in the power of our heals? This gathering of all the mobs and running to the boss is an abomination. I'd love for crowd control to be a thing in our dungeons. In other words, instead of everyone being focused on dealing the most damage, how about being focused on our roles and teamwork?

As for DPS, I don't see a lot of rage at tanks or healers. It's not an epidemic. I don't however like the constant cries to make things harder for the noobs because reasons. It doesn't make it much more fun if casual content becomes the "run a single fight all the way up to the timer until you learn how to beat it" model EX content uses; i tried that, and once I cleared the last thing I wanted to do is farm it for tokens.

The game's difficulty is all right for most people, no need to change much.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

As for DPS, I don't see a lot of rage at tanks or healers. It's not an epidemic. I don't however like the constant cries to make things harder for the noobs because reasons. It doesn't make it much more fun if casual content becomes the "run a single fight all the way up to the timer until you learn how to beat it" model EX content uses; i tried that, and once I cleared the last thing I wanted to do is farm it for tokens.

The game's difficulty is all right for most people, no need to change much.

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I don't feel anyone is asking for things to get harder for the newbies. It's two issues.

There is too much emphasis on dealing damage. This has led many tanks and healers to complain because they want to focus on their roles, not be judged on their ability to deal damage.

The other issue is there is no difficulty curve. You have a lot of easy content then suddenly you are thrown into difficult content.

I think what a lot of people are failing to see, is that SE wants the majority of the game to be accessible.

The hardcores out there have their Extreme, Savage, and the PF-Only raids.

Now, there is a valid complaint that in this Extreme/Savage content, the healers and DPS are forced to dish out as much DPS as possible. But if they change that, then they make the game not fun for the vast majority who are NOT doing the Extreme/Savage content.

I, for one, do not want my experience tarnished because of the hardcore crowd who feel the game is "too easy". I like the fact that a large portion of the game's content is easy. I play for some relaxed fun, not to be sitting on the edge of my seat. I'm just not into that kind of stuff. Call me a carebear, casual, noob, whatever you wanna call me. Go ahead, it's fine. I'm not a pro, and I never claimed to be.

But please don't go nerfing the part I love most about FFXIV, because if you do that... then you kill what makes the game fun in the first place for me and many others like me.

Now, IF they can find some way to change Savage/Extremes, where heals are more important than DPS races, WITHOUT altering the rest of the grouped content... then have at it! I just don't want my stuff suddenly nerfed because of what the hardcores are complaining about.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

Call me a carebear

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What color though?

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Originally Posted by Maeka

I think what a lot of people are failing to see, is that SE wants the majority of the game to be accessible.

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Why does accessible have to be braindead though? Shinryu normal is probably one of the better fights they have done in a while and it can be four maned in 290 gear. People asking for better scaled difficulty aren't demanding Savage or Ultimate levels. You know what's fun? Bardem's Mettle in Shire gear. I actually have to heal and pay attention whereas a moderately geared tank/healer can mega pull and call it done.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

The hardcores out there have their Extreme, Savage, and the PF-Only raids.

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Except, we don't. Look no further than Deltascape, which is even easier than Creator. Alte Roite is so poorly tuned, it's been killed with a full party in ilvl 290 gear and Vit melds. The first tier Savage boss is scaled 30 ilvls below the lowest relevant raid gear. Likewise, Susano and Lakshmi EX were pitifully easy. This is why so many even midcore players are frustrated by some of the content. The devs keep making everything easier to accommodate people who can't be bothered to put forth an effort to improve. Imagine if the normal modes were decently challenging but still reasonable for those uninterested in higher end stuff. At that point, we'd have a proper stepping stone for those looking to test themselves further and those satisfied with a difficult, but decent fight instead of blowing through normal mindlessly and moving on to an increasingly easier Savage.

You want to relax and just play the game at a casual pace. Great! I wish you all the enjoyment. Just don't come into Savage and complain it's too hard. Not saying you, specifically, would. Just that people do, and the devs listening to their whining.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Imagine if the normal modes were decently challenging but still reasonable for those uninterested in higher end stuff. At that point, we'd have a proper stepping stone for those looking to test themselves further and those satisfied with a difficult, but decent fight instead of blowing through normal mindlessly and moving on to an increasingly easier Savage.

You want to relax and just play the game at a casual pace. Great! I wish you all the enjoyment. Just don't come into Savage and complain it's too hard. Not saying you, specifically, would. Just that people do, and the devs listening to their whining.

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You see, this is what I'd want. I'd even go so far as to make all non-levelling MSQ dungeons not part of the roulettes (perhaps Castrum/Prae could be retuned to solo duties and have these MSQ level cap dungeons such as Antitower moved to MS Roulette, or even retune them all into solo duties?). Make Expert dungeons non-MSQ only and give them some darned challenge. Make Deltascape and the 24-mans harder still. Give Savage its Savage status back, hypertune Ultimate Savage to the max. Those who want the story can have it. Those who want challenge can have it. I'd say everyone's a winner there.

I get it's a Final Fantasy game, but it's also an MMO. Maybe this solution could appease most of the playerbase and avoid this friction?