Tanks, please use strength gear.. :(

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Originally Posted by Freyyy

Except DPS. Whereas everything a VIT tank can do a STR tank can do equally the same, but he can have good DPS at the same time. Just an exception for savage content where you must have a minimum VIT threshold to sufficiently survive big hits before focusing on STR, thus making hybrid builds the most optimal option.

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"Hybrid" not straight STR. So the argument of STR > VIT is moot because you need both in the long run. Situational events. But dungeon running for experts, it matters not what you roll. It gets mowed down either way. No need to nit pick.

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Originally Posted by Freyyy

Who the fuck uses Eos ?

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I do in 4 man dungeons. It comes down to allowing me to DPS more vs Fey Wind on 4 targets.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Yeah.. except EVERY single tank at high level pulls more then one group at a time. They pull en-masse.

If they pulled one encounter at a time, I could do that too. To bad it never happens like that way.

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I'm far from maxed out on gear (I'm a Paladin main) and I can manage to DPS even on big pulls as long as the tank is mitigating properly. If they aren't, then that's a problem that needs to be addressed with the tank.

Don't get me wrong, I use strength gear on my tank. I just don't think it's your place to tell tanks (especially newer tanks) what they should and shouldn't be using based on how slow trash mobs are dying in Expert dungeons. It's a matter of comfort level and building confidence. If you as a healer are running OOM on trash pack pulls, you may want to review some of your skills and how they can help you with mana management. If the mobs are truly dying so slowly that the pulls are drawn out, don't bother pestering your tank about their accessories because that's the least of your worries. You should be lighting a fire under your DPS instead for not killing things fast enough.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Are you pulling one encounter at a time? My usual tanks pull entire rooms at a time. 7.5-10 seconds of doing nothing = dead tank regardless of gear. Every second they are losing half their hp. I would rather just have a strength tank who kills some of the waves faster.

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Yes mutiple groups are being pulled. If you rouse your fairy it's not 7 to 10 seconds of nothing neither is your fairy by itself. Unless of course your tanks can't use cd's they'll be alive by the time you get back to them. Take the first pull to see how much you actually have to heal them and go from there. Bad tanks are bad tanks regardless of secondary stats. You should be able to dps on nearly every pull they do. If that's not the case they are pulling more than needs to be pulled. If your healer can't dps your just hurting the raid dps more often then not regardless of stat placement which is just a bad tank

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Originally Posted by Freyyy

If you're just learning tanking for now and feel like you're squishy, you should take at least some VIT accessories. Then when you'll start to be used to the tanking mechanics and how to properly mitigate damage, you won't need that extra VIT anymore and should try to swap progressively to STR accessories. It's I think the best way to get used to it.

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got my right side will all VIT accessories atm, and I took advice from a tank in my FC

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Originally Posted by Yorumi

Yeah I'll admit I havn't played current WoW at all. So apparently it is automatic. Much of my more modern tank experience comes from swtor(well did a lot in tera too but that's a radically different game). I don't want to make it sound like it's super hard or anything but dps are actually capable of pulling aggro from a tank. They discuss burst threat rotations how to properly use taunts to get the maximum threat boost, and even some strategies where the tank lets a dps pull with an opening burst and then quickly taunts before going into a max threat rotation. It's not hard or anything but considering they actually have discussions on threat management vs this game where the amount of discussion is based read your skill descriptions it's much more of a consideration there.

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Old Republic's threat generation was pretty easy to game, though. As I recall, the taunts in that game add a multiplier to threat generated, so you're actually encouraged to weave taunts into your tank rotation. Past a certain point, losing threat becomes impossible even if you just stood there auto-attacking.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

"Then went to pull another room after he was dying and said: "Sorry, I usually live through that.""

"He was a ilvl 180+ novice then..."

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Woah woah woah. Hold on. This explains a ton.

You're not enabling your tanks to live through full pulls and you're still telling them to lower their health pool for increased damage. I've figured it out. You're talking as if the standard etiquette is to only pull one group of trash at a time!

You see, pulling 4 mobs is a lot different from pulling 8 mobs. If you have 8 mobs and you kill one faster, you have only cut their strength down by 1/8th. Diminishing enemy damage becomes less important compared to being able to sustain high damage.

If you have 4 mobs and kill one faster, you've cut their damage down by 1/4. Which sounds like more. BUT AoEs are only hitting half their potential per tick and cast. Which is bad for most DPS and devastating for the likes of BLM. YOU were the one demanding slow runs all along! Not the VIT-enablers!

Nobody gets to 180 without knowing just two dungeons by then. And a tank at that ilvl, if not a little sooner can quite capably withstand every full-pull available in both dungeons. I think I was like i176 as DRK when I survived my first pull from wasp-totem pull in Neverreap. You want tanks to strength-up because you're only able to tackle areas if they're already doing it the non-threatening way.

You're just asking your party to find ways to speed up only after they're playing super conservatively to account for your shortcomings.

Anecdotally, I made a Neverreap run with my fresh 60 FC tank buddy the other night. I was on my i185 DRG alt. We got matched with a fresh 60 WHM.

We wiped right out the gate in the first room. Note, he's a 60 DRK who switched from a 50 PLD. He did full strength build on his DRK. STR accessories. He knows how to push cooldowns.

We wiped twice before the first boss. His dps didn't matter for shit bc the WHM could not keep him alive for love or Benediction. We had to start doing smaller pulls. I started advising him on how big to pull. He igored me at the "two bees, not four" and we wiped again...not bc of dps but bc healer could not keep him alive.

It was one of the most painful Neverreap runs to date.

Ran it last night w same tank and our regular healer. He even tanked all four bees without dying.

So I would say no, the all-STR build isn't going to work for every party. Just like tanking in general, when to use and not use STR takes flexibility.

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Originally Posted by Cooperal

Woah woah woah. Hold on. This explains a ton.

You're not enabling your tanks to live through full pulls and you're still telling them to lower their health pool for increased damage. I've figured it out. You're talking as if the standard etiquette is to only pull one group of trash at a time!

You see, pulling 4 mobs is a lot different from pulling 8 mobs. If you have 8 mobs and you kill one faster, you have only cut their strength down by 1/8th. Diminishing enemy damage becomes less important compared to being able to sustain high damage.

If you have 4 mobs and kill one faster, you've cut their damage down by 1/4. Which sounds like more. BUT AoEs are only hitting half their potential per tick and cast. Which is bad for most DPS and devastating for the likes of BLM. YOU were the one demanding slow runs all along! Not the VIT-enablers!

Nobody gets to 180 without knowing just two dungeons by then. And a tank at that ilvl, if not a little sooner can quite capably withstand every full-pull available in both dungeons. I think I was like i176 as DRK when I survived my first pull from wasp-totem pull in Neverreap. You want tanks to strength-up because you're only able to tackle areas if they're already doing it the non-threatening way.

You're just asking your party to find ways to speed up after your own shortcomings have been taken into account.

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Yes, to increase overall sustain of the group. When you full pull with a new healer your healing them just fine by going b*lls to the walls. However, you run out of stamina quickly, you don't have the gear to sustain that pull for very long. Especially with bloated HP tank.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

What usually happens is the fight takes too long.

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If the fight's taking too long that is not the tank's fault. Put the blame where it belongs - with the DPS.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Yes, to increase overall sustain of the group. When you full pull with a new healer your healing them just fine by going b*lls to the walls. However, you run out of stamina quickly, you don't have the gear to sustain that pull for very long. Especially with bloated HP tank.

However, with a DPS Tank (still using tank stance) they kill the monsters faster, each monster killed is that much more damage you don't have to worry about. The fight goes faster.

What usually happens is the fight takes too long.

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If you can't keep them alive in the first place what's it matter tho? There not gonna shave off a crap ton of a pull by themselves