Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

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Originally Posted by Payotz

I don't think they can even do an overhaul, cause that would require them remaking all the fights and content from HW -> EW. I honestly don't really know what they can do other than to preserve the game state from ARR -> EW and try and make kits that function differently 7.0 onwards.

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Only way i see: give the invuln and maybe (half of) the mitigation skills to the "healers". Now they use those skills with them targeting the tank. Boom. Tanks can put their 1-2-3 and healers have more to do. I know that's a sh*tty solution.

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Originally Posted by Payotz

I don't think they can even do an overhaul, cause that would require them remaking all the fights and content from HW -> EW. I honestly don't really know what they can do other than to preserve the game state from ARR -> EW and try and make kits that function differently 7.0 onwards. This would of course, alienate a lot of the core healers that they've gotten from the initial ShB combat overhaul, and that's not really a thing I would wish onto anyone. It sucks to have something you love taken away from you.

So yeah. No idea really. If anything's possible, I'd love for them to just preserve multiple game states depending on the expansions. ARR content has ARR hotbars and job design tuning, HW content has HW hotbars and job design and tuning etc... which is totally unrealistic. The last thing I could think of is for them to just start designing a new MMO, but uhh, something tells me they'd rather do something with NFTs rather than something that would replace their "good PR" game.

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Thats whats so frustrating because you're right, the overhaul I'm asking for is pretty much a complete redo and the fact of the matter is, there's just not a loud voice within the community for these changes. The best I can hope for is to at least balance the current job design that we have. I think its reasonable enough to nerf the heck out of tank mitigation, so that healers can at leasts still feel useful and contribute to the hard fights rather than be a hindrance. It really shouldnt be this broken.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

I've seen this argument a lot, but it doesn't make sense. They've done at least 2 major overhauls in healing during the game's history; one during HW (a shift towards more damage focus), another in SB (removal of Cleric), and another in ShB (shifting to the current paradigm of tons of big heals and super slim, even identical, DPS kits), and that's not counting the AST reworks, of which there have been at least two, and the removal of Nocturnal Stance in EW, and about to be another in 7.0.

They didn't redo all existing content either time.

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It's because they've all been designed into having stronger heals. The overhaul that is "needed" is to make heals a lot weaker. Like a WHOLE lot weaker.
Like Cure 3 being 150 potency and only affecting 4 people around you, weaker.

And since a lot of the design in FFXIV is big spiky damage and mitigation checks, then they're gonna have to rework every single raid wide and tankbuster to pass the new paradigm.
They can't be spiky anymore. They'd have to be staggered low damage hits over a small period of time. And that involves reworking a LOT of the fights in the game, including Dungeons and Story Trials.

The only reason why it worked in the overhauls is that they've consistently been making healers and tanks stronger.
Like the only healer and tank that was "weak" on launch was Nocturnal AST and DRK, and that was just because AST actually needed to manage mana, and DRK needed to manage cooldowns.

And if a tiny change like that would "break the game" according to the community, then what are the chances that a complete overhaul would come through?

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Originally Posted by Renathras

WoW did a major focus shift from Wrath into Cataclysm because of the exact same problem with their healer design in Wrath (people were running 5 man Heroic dungeons with no Healers because Tanks were so OP), and they didn't redesign all prior content to match that paradigm, either.

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Well Cata is essentially a rework of the Old World, so technically, they did redesign a large portion of the prior content to match that.
And there's one thing that FFXIV has that WoW doesn't that lets WoW do that. They don't do synced content.

FFXIV has a vested interest in keeping their old content clearable just because synced content is a major selling point of the game.
It would be bad optics to just have synced minimum ilvl, no echo to be unclearable because of the new design.
"Oh SE ruined healers now!!!!! It's bad!!!!" would fill every reddit thread, twitter thread, forum posts and pf post for like 2 expansions.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

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How do you have so many opinions without actually playing the game

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Originally Posted by Payotz

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Right, but that's why I pointed out the stat squish. The stat squish would make players WEAKER in the content vs stronger. Their answer to that was basically they made an algorithm that adjusted damage and health of enemies down to scale it as well. Moreover, they wouldn't have to redesign all content anyway, since ARR and HW content was already designed with that healing model.

They also wouldn't need to change things like Cure 3 - spam Cure 3 and you don't do it long because MP is a constraint. The issue is that oGCD heals need to be weaker so you use them to augment GCD healing, not replace it. And if you have more frequent damage, it's weaker. Say you have 5 hits of 15k damage 5 or so seconds apart. You need to heal during that since waiting until the end means some players would die. Using mitigation will only cover some of the hits. So you have to fall back on GCD heals. In the current game, you get a single hit of 60k damage, have to use a mitigation to survive, then take no damage for the next 45 seconds, so a single oGCD from both Healers will top the party off.

Smaller but more consistent damage actually forces the use of GCD heals, since even if heal potencies aren't changed AT ALL, you would need to space that healing out more, and you only have so many oGCDs.

The second step would be to weaken oGCD power, since people can still heal with GCD heals, but they're limited by MP. Doing this also works fine, since it means people clearing ShB/EW would be entirely able to do so using the GCD healing kits. As we ALL KNOW at this point, players can clear most content without touching a GCD heal, even Savages, and apparently, even Ultimates. So weakening oGCD heals but leaving GCD heals alone would mean that they couldn't just oGCD heal the pain away and actually have to use GCD heals. But since the GCD heals are still relatively powerful, it means the content can still be cleared with no retuning. Run an Expert Roulette or Extreme Trial right now and use no oGCD heals, only GCD heals. You can probably clear it just fine as long as you know when to back off damage so your MP can regenerate (and...maybe not even that). If that's possible, it means no old content would even need to be retuned.

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Originally Posted by GaiusDrakon

How do you have so many opinions without actually playing the game

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How do I live in your head for such cheap rent?

Like, who even ARE you? I've never seen you post in replies to me until now, but you're hugging my butt across multiple threads, lol

Seriously, just drop to your knee and give me the ring already. It's clear at this point you can't stop thinking about me. XD

[For the record, I do Extremes all the time - which is "end game content/playing the game", and occasionally Savage if I feel like PFing for it. I have a variable enough schedule I don't have a Static, and I don't want to try clearing P3S or P7S/P8S/TOP without a Static, it's that simple.

So I do "play the game" and am very familiar with mechanics and gameplay. NEeeeeext!

Also: It better be a big fat rock on this ring you're giving me to justify all the stalking~! <3]

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Originally Posted by Renathras

So I do "play the game" and am very familiar with mechanics and gameplay.

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lmao its just funny you run around complaining that veteran healers disagree with you then type out all this nonsense that shows you don't actually understand healing

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Originally Posted by Payotz

FFXIV has a vested interest in keeping their old content clearable just because synced content is a major selling point of the game.
It would be bad optics to just have synced minimum ilvl, no echo to be unclearable because of the new design.
"Oh SE ruined healers now!!!!! It's bad!!!!" would fill every reddit thread, twitter thread, forum posts and pf post for like 2 expansions.

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This argument goes well out the window when you realized doing content synced is not even an inch comparable to how it was when it was current.
Missing skills + higher potency and you just cruise through them pressing 5 buttons.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

What's important to consider is that this problem isn't a problem because it means healers are likely to be barred from Ultimate prog parties, because they won't be. The issue stems from a fair chunk of the healer community being unhappy with the state of healing for 4+ years at this point as a result of a lack of gameplay. Healing requirements are incredibly low across the entire game respective to the type of content you're engaging with, meaning how much you actually need to use and engage with the roughly 20-ish healing and mitigation tools available to you is incredibly limited. Meanwhile, the gameplay you get to engage with when healing isn't needed is strikingly similar to the gameplay a BLM player has around Level 6~Level 15, and that will account for upwards of 80% or more of the time you spend in a fight. This is not what many healer players what. When this concern was brought up with Yoshi-P, the response was to play Ultimate content if the rest of the game wasn't satisfying for you as a healer.

If the healing requirements of an ultimate fight are so low that it's even possible to clear without any healer at all, how is anyone unhappy with the state of healers supposed to 'enjoy the challenge of Ultimate' even if that was a satisfactory solution to the problems these players have?

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well i think ultimately it boils down to the top 1% shaping the game. the top 1% who would cheat as much as they can get away with, and remove as much visual flavor/abstraction from encounters to make it resemble something as close to pong as possible. these are people you are also competing for logs week 1-2 too. they demand homogenization. every role has been severely homogenized. homogenization also means that utility on jobs is also homogenized. no more ast card abilities or protraction. TP was removed so no tp card/bard tp regen. MP regen was standardized so no more MP song. so the only utility they can really give now is mitigation/personal heals.

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Originally Posted by GaiusDrakon

lmao its just funny you run around complaining that veteran healers disagree with you then type out all this nonsense that shows you don't actually understand healing

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lmao it's funny that I live in your head so rent free you have to reply to every post I make with a lie. <3

P.S. Still waiting on you to propose, stalker.

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Originally Posted by grinkdaboy

well i think ultimately it boils down to the top 1% shaping the game. the top 1% who would cheat as much as they can get away with, and remove as much visual flavor/abstraction from encounters to make it resemble something as close to pong as possible. these are people you are also competing for logs week 1-2 too. they demand homogenization. every role has been severely homogenized.

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did u just get rejected from a week 1 static

kekw