It's time to kill the argument that DPS abilities keep healers from healing.

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Originally Posted by FoxCh40s

Except they can't even be bothered with that.

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... Why you gotta cut me deep like that?

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

It feels like you're just taking the word 'healer' literally and assuming that the job should have no other facets or depth to it beyond that?

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If the FFXIV Devs simply changed the role name from Healer to "Support" a lot of these counter arguments would lose a LOT of steam.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

If the FFXIV Devs simply changed the role name from Healer to "Support" a lot of these counter arguments would lose a LOT of steam.

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Honestly, you're not wrong. Healers do feel more like Support Classes/Jobs in this game, especially now. Ranged DPS were more support at the start, but now that they've shifted to more of a focus on the DPS, healers feel more support oriented, especially with the upcoming changes to our main DPS spell allowing weave windows. Sure, a lot of their support is healing, but good healers are expected to do DPS.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

If the FFXIV Devs simply changed the role name from Healer to "Support" a lot of these counter arguments would lose a LOT of steam.

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Absolutely, maybe it's a translation thing. I'm not really sure.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

Because they seem to understand that for those asking it'll never be enough. This reminds me of early tanking in the game, way back when they gave players attribute points to use and the option of equipping accessories of the players choice and any tank that didn't assign every last bit of strength that they could to their character, even at the cost of mitigation, was considered an idiot. I can see healers suffering the same fate, if in a different way, where it has become all about optimizing DPS over heals, because it's never enough and NEVER WILL BE ENOUGH.

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I can only assume you're referring to the STR accessory era and old tank stance. In which case, there was virtually never a reason not to always use STR accessory and be in DPS stance 99% of the time because the game failed to incentivize anything else. This is the point you continuously seem to gloss over or outright ignore. Players aren't making these decisions on a whim but in response to lackluster gameplay design. Tanks rarely focused on their defensive attributes due to content never rewarding them for that decision. Likewise, Healers are asking for additional DPS tools because the devs refuse to emphasize healing. Practically every skill they've shown off will be mostly EX or Savage exclusive in practical use; being comically overpowered in everything else. It's why abilities like Temperance and Neural Sect didn't "wow" most players. They're barely used.

Your insistence players will never be satisfied is little more than a slippery slope fallacy. "Let's keep a depressingly boring design because maybe, possibly, somehow adding two more DPS buttons will send the playerbase into a frenzy!!" They managed in Heavensward.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

If the FFXIV Devs simply changed the role name from Healer to "Support" a lot of these counter arguments would lose a LOT of steam.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Absolutely, maybe it's a translation thing. I'm not really sure.

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It would likely bring its own, new slew of complaints, though (even if still for the better), probably involving just how limited and indistinct/homogeneous our span of 'support' is in its practice/playflow (especially when compared against your successful Mobas or Hero-Shooters).

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

It would likely bring its own, new slew of complaints, though (even if still for the better), probably involving just how limited and indistinct/homogeneous our span of 'support' is in its practice/playflow (especially when compared against your successful Mobas or Hero-Shooters).

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That's not... untrue... But maybe a name shift may shift the focus of how healers are currently being designed but still make them attractive for players. Right now, I know there are people who like playing support. If they're refocused as support jobs, not just in healing but in buffs and debuffs, there may be players that are more interested in these roles and provide more feedback. Right now, healer population is low, and even fewer who are good at it. The healer population is of two minds (healers only exist to heal vs healers need to provide things other than healing), so if we can get the two sides to agree on what healers are supposed to do, maybe we can give the sort of feedback the devs need to know to make more engaging gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

Correct me if I'm wrong, but WHM at least has five abilities at lv 80 that do direct damage...(snip)...Sure, you're gonna use glare the most, especially at lower levels

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Tell me you don't play WHM without saying, "I don't play WHM."

WHM doesn't get Glare until L72. Until then, it's Stone. Of the "five" abilities that do direct damage, one is an AoE (Holy) and thus useless in single-target fights, one is DPS-neutral because it requires you to burn two GCDs on lily heals first (Afflatus Misery), and one is an oGCD you just mindlessly mash on-cooldown for the DPS (Assize). This leaves you filling your GCDs with 211111111 spam.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

Because, for players, it's never going to be enough. DPS abilities are like crack for players. One taste and they gotta have more, and better, and more.

*Dave Chappelle at the window* "Ya'll got any more of them DPS abilities?"

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Tell me you never played during ARR without saying, "I never played during ARR."

Healers had more DPS tools back during ARR. Guess what? They were not, in fact, asking for more. SCH and WHM both had multiple DoTs to manage. Cleric Stance made DPS require some actual thought, instead of just mindlessly mashing Stone whenever you weren't doing anything else. The lack of oGCD bloat meant that healers had far fewer GCDs available for DPS, because they had to lean harder on their GCD heals. So there was less downtime, and what downtime existed was more engaging, because it consisted of more than 211111111 spam.

And healers were happy, and content got cleared, and all those lil' baby noobs that you Sylphies are supposedly so concerned about were able to pick up healing just fine. Your unfounded catastrophizing ignores the actual history of healing early on in this game.

Sincerely, someone who mained SCH during ARR.

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Originally Posted by inhaledcorn

That's not... untrue... But maybe a name shift may shift the focus of how healers are currently being designed but still make them attractive for players. Right now, I know there are people who like playing support. If they're refocused as support jobs, not just in healing but in buffs and debuffs, there may be players that are more interested in these roles and provide more feedback. Right now, healer population is low, and even fewer who are good at it. The healer population is of two minds (healers only exist to heal vs healers need to provide things other than healing), so if we can get the two sides to agree on what healers are supposed to do, maybe we can give the sort of feedback the devs need to know to make more engaging gameplay.

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Oh, for sure. I just doubt anyone could successfully sell the rename as, say, a means of avoiding criticism.

It'd just shift us towards new (and, I suspect, more constructive and lucrative) criticism.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

If the FFXIV Devs simply changed the role name from Healer to "Support" a lot of these counter arguments would lose a LOT of steam.

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I mean, what support? Besides healing skills and DPS skills, we get...rez and a damage reduction cooldown or two?