Labyrinth and Syrcus Tower...

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

1. Changing duty finder algorithm to detect if a player is purposely lowering his item level (but I am not sure if this is even possible). Or change it in the way people with the correct item level can enter in anyone despite people lowering theirs (but this may affect people who is doing the first raids for the first time).

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As far as any algorithm goes, I think they could fix this simply by having the duty finder look for large disparities between current job level and ilv. Those with significant gaps would then have their rewards severely reduced. Like, not even worth using the roulette kind of reduction. As an example, I believe the ilv requirement for Rabanastre is 305-ish, so if a level 70-80 player decides to deliberately drop their ilv below this and then queue into alliance roulette, they will then be warned that by using the roulette they will receive a reduction/penalty to their daily reward: Proceed?

An exploit should be reported, not abused. It really lets you know which side of the fence a person stands on.

Reading through the solutions here I still think the best one would be to just give players some choice over what they get in the roulette, especially for alliance. We clearly have two camps, one that only wants the level 50's and one that wants anything but the level 50's. Getting the latter group to queue more solves the issue of waiting for the higher level raids.

Trying to "fix" the ilvl algorithm introduces more problems. You allow for undergeared players in content that is more challenging than most duties, encourage people to abandon more, and my own personal concern, I still won't be able to avoid the level 50 raids which makes the alliance roulette not worth running.

One solution would be MORE roulets, like someone in that other thread wants a Ex-trial roulett (id be up for that) we could get a 50/60 and a 70/80 roulett, just as id wish for the dungeons as well...

But yeah bc maybe one person is lazy and lowers the gear 23 others have to do the lv 50 stuff over and over...

Ofc the exp rewards should be scaled as well, balanced around the level of Duty vs. your lvl.

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An exploit should be reported, not abused. It really lets you know which side of the fence a person stands on.

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There isn't really any point in "reporting" this. They knew full well what they were doing when they made the requirements of the roulette what they did, considering there exist other roulettes where you must qualify for every duty on it to be able to queue it. They also have the data for clear times on duties and I'm sure they can clearly see the disparity between ARR raids and the later ones. We shouldn't have to put 2 and 2 together for them.

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Originally Posted by PyurBlue

Reading through the solutions here I still think the best one would be to just give players some choice over what they get in the roulette, especially for alliance. We clearly have two camps, one that only wants the level 50's and one that wants anything but the level 50's. Getting the latter group to queue more solves the issue of waiting for the higher level raids.

Trying to "fix" the ilvl algorithm introduces more problems. You allow for undergeared players in content that is more challenging than most duties, encourage people to abandon more, and my own personal concern, I still won't be able to avoid the level 50 raids which makes the alliance roulette not worth running.

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Allowing players to choose won't accomplish anything, and defeats the point of even having a roulette. People are going to pick the path of least resistance more often than not. Furthermore, the dev team doesn't want us trying to ignore dungeons or raids we dislike. That's why they have never introduced a veto type system despite people asking. They want us filling queues for people.

If an ilvl requirement were set, it's impossible to be undergeared for the raids. If you weren't able to access Alliance Roulette once you hit 70 unless you unlocked Orbonne, the lowest you could be is i365. That's perfectly fine for said raid.

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Originally Posted by Kuroka

One solution would be MORE roulets, like someone in that other thread wants a Ex-trial roulett (id be up for that) we could get a 50/60 and a 70/80 roulett, just as id wish for the dungeons as well...

But yeah bc maybe one person is lazy and lowers the gear 23 others have to do the lv 50 stuff over and over...

Ofc the exp rewards should be scaled as well, balanced around the level of Duty vs. your lvl.

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They likely aren't doing this because balancing the EXP gains would be a nightmare. If they're too low, no one will touch certain roulettes. If they're amazing, then everyone levels extremely fast and stops bothering with said roulettes since they no longer need them. An example of this is 50/60/70. A lot of people outright skip it because the EXP gains are garbage unless you get something from Stormblood.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

As far as any algorithm goes, I think they could fix this simply by having the duty finder look for large disparities between current job level and ilv. Those with significant gaps would then have their rewards severely reduced. Like, not even worth using the roulette kind of reduction. As an example, I believe the ilv requirement for Rabanastre is 305-ish, so if a level 70-80 player decides to deliberately drop their ilv below this and then queue into alliance roulette, they will then be warned that by using the roulette they will receive a reduction/penalty to their daily reward: Proceed?

An exploit should be reported, not abused. It really lets you know which side of the fence a person stands on.

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I actually rather like this idea. Have it be like a 90% penalty to the EXP gains and reward zero Goetia and Phan tomes. Basically, it's completely worthless to drop your ilvl.

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Originally Posted by PyurBlue

Reading through the solutions here I still think the best one would be to just give players some choice over what they get in the roulette, especially for alliance. We clearly have two camps, one that only wants the level 50's and one that wants anything but the level 50's. Getting the latter group to queue more solves the issue of waiting for the higher level raids.

Trying to "fix" the ilvl algorithm introduces more problems. You allow for undergeared players in content that is more challenging than most duties, encourage people to abandon more, and my own personal concern, I still won't be able to avoid the level 50 raids which makes the alliance roulette not worth running.

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I don't mind running the ARR raids so long as the dice everyone is using are legitimate. The raids already have a minimum ilv requirement, so you don't have to worry much about undergeared players in the higher level raids. Right now getting anything other a CT raid (more specifically LoTA and ST) is atrociously rare. It makes me wonder exactly how long this exploit has been going on.

I rarely do alliance roulette these days as I'm sick of running LotA and ST while I just mash my face of my keyboard.

I think a good solution to this issue would be to rebalance the older raids - make it so players actually need to do the mechanics. Nerf player stats or buff the bosses so they can't be burned down in a few minutes. I don't see why they can't just reduce the strength of level sync to make the older raids play the way they did back in 2.0.

I wonder why people like to run LoA over and over. The void ark raid is easier and doesn't have the risk of wipe that LoA does with the platforms. I would also love to see void ark more, because I am seriously bored with the ARR raids.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

I wonder why people like to run LoA over and over. The void ark raid is easier and doesn't have the risk of wipe that LoA does with the platforms. I would also love to see void ark more, because I am seriously bored with the ARR raids.

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Two reasons

1) Void Ark requires having gear below i205 to avoid Weeping City, which most people don't have.
2) It allows World of Darkness, which people still wipe on.

Basically, it's just easier to strip naked.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Allowing players to choose won't accomplish anything, and defeats the point of even having a roulette. People are going to pick the path of least resistance more often than not. Furthermore, the dev team doesn't want us trying to ignore dungeons or raids we dislike. That's why they have never introduced a veto type system despite people asking. They want us filling queues for people.

If an ilvl requirement were set, it's impossible to be undergeared for the raids. If you weren't able to access Alliance Roulette once you hit 70 unless you unlocked Orbonne, the lowest you could be is i365. That's perfectly fine for said raid.

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They want us filling queues for people, right. That's why I'm suggesting an opt out option. I don't fill queues for anyone waiting for alliance raids because I'd rather avoid the entire rouluette than get the really boring duties in it. If I could queue without being eligible for the raids I don't like, I would. It's a gain for everyone. Choice doesn't defeat the purpose of the roulette and if you think about it, we already have a choice in that we have multiple roulettes for filling different content. Every roulette except the Mentor roulette excludes duties. I'm just suggesting a slightly finer level of control. I feel like it's especially likely to work in the alliance roulette because we have a split of opinion on which raids are preferred. ARR is probably going to remain more popular overall no matter what is done, but if people who avoid the roulette entirely start queuing, that's a plus. More choice also means the people unwilling to deal with the 70 raids wouldn't be joining them and immediately quitting.

As for the ilvl requirement, I guess there are a few ways to implement it. As it is now it allows people to influence the raid that they get. If we change it so that the requirement is dynamic, people can still quit, some might just avoid unlocking certain raids. Those players like myself have no more incentive than now to queue, and new players (especially with Road to 70) might be cutoff from a roulette just because they don't meet the requirements for 1 duty within it.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I don't mind running the ARR raids so long as the dice everyone is using are legitimate. The raids already have a minimum ilv requirement, so you don't have to worry much about undergeared players in the higher level raids. Right now getting anything other a CT raid (more specifically LoTA and ST) is atrociously rare. It makes me wonder exactly how long this exploit has been going on.

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There's definitely a spectrum of opinions regarding the roulette's content. Not everyone is completely tired of the level 50's, but I'd gladly wipe to Thunder God repeatedly instead of dealing with the total boredom of a LoTA/ST run.

The undergearing issue could be fixed by forcing your ilvl to match your character level or scale to the highest level raid you've unlocked, but like I mentioned above that doesn't solve all the problems. It's pretty easy to reach 70 before getting to MSQ level 70, so new players might be inadvertently locked out of Alliance roulette. Players reaching current expansion content also have to contend with increasing their ilvl and they may be excluded from the roulette during that process. The people already willing to quit a duty they don't like will still be willing to quit. I guess since I don't queue for alliance I don't really know how common that is, but it happens enough that it's been brought up in this discussion.

I just want to promote the idea of opting out from certain duties because I think it can be done while keeping the roulette as a means to fill queues. SE is in a better position than me to know if it will work or not as they can monitor duty activity, but at least on paper, I can see the narrowing of roulette choice increasing player participation.