The state of healers is affecting everyone

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Originally Posted by Granyala

Not if the boss decides that you are the one that gets the Flare and has to run around. :D
Also, other people are too far away at the time (there are 3 flares total) for Cure III to be effective for everybody.

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Given assize is probably needed, it is true that a solo healer needs to stay with the party.

But the party should adjust by not having the WHM leave stack, and you don't need to heal the away flares immediately since there's no other raidwides for a bit after Unholy (6 people in stack is survivable at 80k hp plus change per person).

I think it's possible, but definitely harder than the shield jobs.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I don't get the desire for complex rotations either. Coming from console games where all your abilities can usually fit on the buttons of the controller, that's all I really want - the phenomenal (and growing) list of skills here makes it very hard to remember everything that is available to you.

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The desire comes from a lack of anything else to do when there's not enough damage flying about.

Not sure why, thread after thread - page after page, this point has to be continuously repeated: People just want something to do during the healing downtime. Downtime which can easily make up more than 60% of a fight, and the way that the game is currently designed that downtime is filled with one/two button DPS spam. Said spam is brain dead and having to do it so often for so long gets tedious, so realizing that we're going to have so much DPS downtime a lot of healers wind up asking for more complex rotations so we can have something to do aside from smashing one button over and over.

To those that retort with, "Why don't you push for more intensive healing then?" many of us do that as well. However, we have never once had even an impression that such an overhaul was coming so it's more a wishful dream. And a massive overhaul it would be, considering they'd have to rebalance all the older fights in the game around the new healing intensity as well. At least with DPS rotation and the like we can point to ye olde Scholar and Cleric Stance dancing as examples of what we once had and would like to have back.

At the very least having one complex class/one with rotations to offer an alternative to the incredibly basic WHM playstyle would be a nice change instead of making each of the classes more and more similar to one another.

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Also, I have a hard enough time keeping up with DPS rotations while dodging mechanics anyway. Add healing to that where at any moment you have to drop everything and save the party? It would be awful, and the brain power of following the rotation would take away from my attention of watching the party's HP.

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Keeping up rotations while dodging mechanics is a pretty low standard to meet as is. How low a bar are we willing to keep classes at because some people may struggle?

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Originally Posted by Shalan

Keeping up rotations while dodging mechanics is a pretty low standard to meet as is. How low a bar are we willing to keep classes at because some people may struggle?

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Perhaps if people were less abusive towards those that struggle and not simply go “ur bad LOL git gud /votekick” there would be a lot less anxiety al around.

For me it’s mostly because SCH dps kit got gutted. For me healing isn’t fun anymore unless it’s WHM. Im a tank main but I used to like to heal in my spare time but the changes have turned me away from the role

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Originally Posted by Gemina

To some degree? I'd say to a pretty significant one. Especially in comparison to the feeling of excitement the first time you go into an encounter. Healers are never going to get an actual DPS rotation. You might as well throw this out the window because it isn't happening ever. Not in the direction the devs are going. You are completely ignoring the varied skill levels amongst the playerbase. Despite the fact that there are players out there who are not happy with the state of our current healers, this does not mean that a lot of thought does not go into the design.

To be honest, I don't think there are many that are entirely happy with the current state of healers. This applies to both players and the devs. But for those who want the devs the nurture the green DPS aspect of healers will likely continue to be disappointed and feel the devs are not listening to them because it should be clear this is not their vision of how healers should play. Will they eventually cave and bring healers more in line with 4.0 SCH? It's possible, but it's not happening anytime in 5.x.

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Not really? Case in point, I know several hardcore groups who outright didn't practice pre-Savage with their static healers because and I quote "healing was so boring. They had nothing to practice. So why force them to come?" Now obviously that is a hardcore sentiment, but it applies all the way down. It isn't repetition that causes healers to lose interest faster. It's the combination their primary role has significantly less engagement alongside that repetition.

You also misunderstood. I know they aren't going to give healers a complex rotation nor do they necessarily have to. They do, however, have to give them something to do that isn't spamming Glare/Broil/Malefic until the ends of time. Tanks don't have an overly complex rotation. In fact, Warrior is pretty brain dead. But it hass something to keep them occupied when they aren't tanking. There's a myriad of possibilities SE could explore with healers. Yes, a damage rotation is one of them but more intense healing or greater emphasis on support all come to mind. White Mage has something of the right idea with the revamped Lilies. You're essentially rewarded for healing. Astro, meanwhile, does the opposite. You have a pointless amount of busywork that ultimately offers inferior results to the job spamming one ability.

The point is... people are upset with healers because virtually every piece of content reduces them to being gimped DPS for 70% or more. If SE ran with that and embraced the hybrid nature. It make actually work. Shadowbringers showed they don't want to do that. They want us to heal more. And they went about that by keeping the Stormblood scaling while also making content not hit as hard. Savage turns 1-3 has very little direct tank damage. Basically, they changed nothing.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Also, I have a hard enough time keeping up with DPS rotations while dodging mechanics anyway. Add healing to that where at any moment you have to drop everything and save the party? It would be awful, and the brain power of following the rotation would take away from my attention of watching the party's HP. I'd probably give up on it altogether because I'd feel like I'm doing a terrible job of both sides of my role.

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They've set up combos with GNB and DNC where using other skills don't break the combo, yet adding something like that to a healer is too much? There are ways to make the DPS combos work while still healing, it's just not likely to happen. I can understand some people not being able to keep up with it, but saying "Some people can't, therefore shouldn't" seems a tad strange to me.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

Perhaps if people were less abusive towards those that struggle and not simply go “ur bad LOL git gud /votekick” there would be a lot less anxiety all around.

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If you consider being told that doing your rotation while dodging mechanics is abusive... that's kinda sad.
It is literally the lowest bar in the game, and if you're struggling to meet that bar you either have to get better or find some other class to play. I really don't know what else to say lol.

That's something they expect you to do/be proficient at within the first one or two of those adventurer's guild help tutorial things before Sastasha

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

Whether or not they cater to "green DPS", that is what their game is designed for, and outside of a massive rework, that's not going to change be it this expansion or the next one. If they aren't willing to give healers their own rotation (doesn't even have to be much of one, I don't need anything more than 3-5 buttons and I'd be content) then they need something else to do in their massive amounts of downtime.

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I'd actually say that is what the meta is designed for, not the game. We already know DPS checks don't factor their DPS. This isn't a Sims or puzzle game. I'm not saying you think it is, but damage is naturally part of a PvE encounter, the question is should healers be spending 90% of the encounter doing it. I am of the mind that's it's the encounters that need to change, not their DPS rotation. And I would think that the game's healers would desire the same, given their chosen role.

Concurring that a DPS rotation doesn't need to be particularly complex; we're not talking WHM getting SUM rotation. If WHM had a lily step between Afflatus heal and Misery, where you pressed an oGCD to upgrade existing spells for next cast at the cost of a mid lily, that'd work for me.

It'd double the amount of time spent making the sort of optimization decisions WHM makes for lilies now, and there's potential for player choice by making a variety of upgraded effects (dps, heal, support). It still begins from healing and ends in Misery, it's still superficially simple, can be delayed as needed for healing because it runs off time gated and stackable lilies, and only adds one actual new button to hotbars.

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Originally Posted by Gaethan_Tessula

But the party should adjust by not having the WHM leave stack

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Honestly, while I am sure it can be done somehow, I won't try that with my party. The people are having a hard enough time as it is and we're still 5K+ shy of the 71K DPS requirement, so the last thing I'll do is ask them to adjust to me.
I like to solo heal as much as reasonably possible but in situations like these, I just admit that 2 healers are better than one. :D

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Originally Posted by Shalan

Keeping up rotations while dodging mechanics is a pretty low standard to meet as is. How low a bar are we willing to keep classes at because some people may struggle?

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I don't know man, seeing the Quietus phase of E2S, I sure am happy that I am not a DPS player. :D