Reasonable buff to war

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

WAR is last in every fight; stop only looking at rDPS when comparing the tanks.

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To be fair, rdps is the only thing that matters.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

To be fair, rdps is the only thing that matters.

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It doesn't matter in the context of this discussion.

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

WAR is last in every fight; stop only looking at rDPS when comparing the tanks.

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Even with that being the case for aDPS (a metric you have to be real nitpicky about), I have to ask "so what?"

WAR is ahead in rDPS sometimes, but behind in aDPS.

What does that tell you about WAR?

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

WAR is ahead in rDPS sometimes, but behind in aDPS.

What does that tell you about WAR?

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That it still doesn't detract from my original point that the discrepancy is pointless.

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

WAR is ahead in rDPS sometimes, but behind in aDPS.

What does that tell you about WAR?

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That its dps is fine. noone who is seriously looking at a person's numbers cares about their inflated aDPS.

The point is that your assumptions were incorrect; the discrepancy isn't what you said it was.

Whether that changes your opinion or not, I don't honestly care.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

That its dps is fine. noone who is seriously looking at a person's numbers cares about their inflated aDPS.

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Then you misunderstand the point of this discussion, or perhaps you misunderstand what aDPS represents.

When it comes to player performance, rDPS is generally most important. When it comes to job performance, aDPS is the best practical metric for tank DPS.

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

The point is that your assumptions were incorrect; the discrepancy isn't what you said it was.

Whether that changes your opinion or not, I don't honestly care.

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The point is that even if WAR is dead last, the discrepancy between top dog and last place isn't serious enough to cry about being last in DPS. My opinion is that WAR's worthwhile, and in regards to tank DPS, we've got satisfactory balance.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Uh, you sure about that?

I remember launch it wasn't all that well liked, including through the savage patch and 4.1 adjustments. And then unga bunga 4.2 came along and at that point the job became a meme. Sure, people had fun with it, but I wouldn't go around calling that the prime example of great class design. I think Paladin gets to take that crown before the Warrior does, and from personal opinion I'd still put SB Dark Knight in front of it.

And then you just expand to other roles and I'd count like five others who could claim it before Warrior. Stormblood Bard without much question, Red Mage and Samurai (Though it was their expansion, so no adaptation from previous iterations had to be factored in), SB Black Mage, and personally I'd say SB Machinist too.

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I think those complaints, following the removal of half-gauging and the shared recasts on Inner Release and Unchained, were mostly just based in Warrior having a lower output floor than the other tanks yet still being eclipsed, at the time, by PLD at the highest levels of play, despite PLD having clearly stronger utility and less cost to its mitigation. Apart from Shake it Off being a complete meme, it was largely just a matter of... tuning.

4.1 Warrior would have been perfect to me if only

• Inner Release had also doubled gauge generation from weaponskills, to make it more useful in dungeons and to give it a little more ebb and flow against Infuriate.
• Gauge bonuses based on gauge recently spent instead of gauge readied. Sharper bonuses, more quickly fading. (Fell Cleave in order to add crit chance to a Storm's Path, rather than waiting until 100 gauge to Fell Cleave.)
• Defiance also affected healing from healing abilities, not just from healing spells. (No more accidental massive healing efficiency disparity, and more reasons to stance-dance.)
• Inner Beast and Steel Cyclone both had lifesteal, and all lifesteal was increased to 50% instead of an awkward by-level tapering modifier of... what, 28% by level 80?
• Inner Beast and Steel Cyclone no longer ignored Defiance's damage penalty, but their potency was increased to compensate, giving Unchained more burst potential.
• Similar to Enhanced Infuriate, gauge spent in Deliverance would reduce the CD on Unchained and gauge spent in Defiance would reduce the CD of Inner Release. This would mitigate its mitigation costs over time while playing further upon the idea of Equilibrium. (Some similar-ish changes on the other two tanks.)
• Deliverance/Defiance shared key. Automatically put in Deliverance upon swapping to Warrior. Can no longer accidentally drop stance. (PLD gets the same for Sw/Sh Oath.)

But alas, uga bunga "I hit hurd" WAR won out and the rest is history (mere prologue to the the nigh-one-mechanic WAR we have and will likely to continue to have).

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

The point is that your assumptions were incorrect; the discrepancy isn't what you said it was.

Whether that changes your opinion or not, I don't honestly care.

Edit:

Then you misunderstand the point of this discussion, or perhaps you misunderstand what aDPS represents.

When it comes to player performance, rDPS is generally most important. When it comes to job performance, aDPS is the best practical metric for tank DPS.

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I disagree. I believe rdps is the better metric for both. aDPS includes all sorts of buffs which skew numbers. rDPS as a tank would be the raw metric of your damage contribution without those buffs.