As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

It's already been said before, but if healers didn't have damaging skills what about quests? Would we just heal the enemy to death?

My issue isn't about if you SHOULD DPS as a healer, of course you should DPS, standing around doing nothing during combat is could reproductive.

My issue is with the people who say you HAVE to DPS. If I'm in a new duty and I'm uncomfortable with the content and the damage patterns I might opt out of dpsing until I get the gist of it.

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Ok. So basically it is expected of a healer. Thank you. Stop arguing with people. I understand comfort levels. Everyone does. But if you're comfortable dpsing you are going to dps regardless of how familiar you are with a fight. As you get more familiar you do more dps, like with every other class.

I always Dps even when the tank is a DRK that's why I love SCH.

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Originally Posted by Rennies

I was apparently top 4 DPs throughout a weeping city run this morning, as white mage. According to the parse, I also had 77% overheal (though I'm pretty shitty with estimating how much healing I need in that raid). We had 3 scholars who refused to do any damage. Pathetic. Now I know to never queue up as Ast in there again. People are gonna be too terrible for my cards to be worth more than Assize/fluid aura

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Just give yourself all the Balance and Arrow cards. xD

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

My issue is with the people who say you HAVE to DPS. If I'm in a new duty and I'm uncomfortable with the content and the damage patterns I might opt out of dpsing until I get the gist of it.

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I would think thats completely fine, rather probably a good number of healers do that too.

We also have to remember not all healers work the same in terms of skill sets during fights, so what pple say you wanna take witha slight grain of salt depending on what main healer they are coming from and then adjust it to your main healer class. (Like for me i found Sch easy output to dps and heal, Whm was smack in the middle, and Ast was a little bit more busy with their 'support' cards if they didnt forget about it)

You don't need to deal damage as a healer, being a player that is both comfortable and able to do it while sustaining your party with heals and mitigations is something that add you as a player and fasten up duties but should never be needed if your party's DPS are doing good. Feel free to Cleric when you're comfortable and for progression its something that should always be coordinated not only with your your co-healer bu your party as well so they know when heals are coming and when they're not.

For casual content, feel free to deal damage or not. You're not required to but your stance dance can make a difference between a 25 minutes dungeon and a 10 minutes one. Basically any discution about healer dps falls under these choices, like many f us pointed out already.

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Originally Posted by CBellz

If you're a BLM and are not using Apoc on the tank, you're a bad BLM.

If you're a NIN and are not using Shadewalker or Goad when needed, you're a bad NIN.

If you're a Bard and are not using Foe Requiem, you're a bad Bard.

I just gave 3 examples that are much closer to the healer DPS analogy than the examples you gave. Want me to go on?

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Actually, my example is more accurate because Goad and Apoc are two abilities that cannot be used on oneself and thus designed to be used on someone else as part of your kit.

The examples I have given directly have you yourself focus on your own damage, something that isn't part of your role as DPS and are cross-abilities that can either heal you or mitigate damage, or increase the healer's healing ability.

A Bard using Second Wind can save the healer from having to heal and let them DPS a few seconds longer, using Keen Flurry can mitigate around 15-20% damage at times and thus save the Healer MP, but you don't see people using it much in dungeons do you?

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Originally Posted by FunkyBunch

I do all I can at all times, but again somehow you think that ANY DPS AT ALL as a healer is equivalent to maximizing every other class ever.
As a SCH, I consistently get the the top or near the top DPS wise along with keeping everyone alive, now that I finally unlocked Stoneskin it's even easier. As a BLM, I get the top DPS and use Apoc and Virus. As a NIN I get near the top DPS and use Shadewalker on the Tank so they can stay in DPS stance longer and Goad on any of my TPless friends and Trick Attack whenever it's off cooldown.
I also heal myself whenever it's off cooldown and I need a bit of healing.

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Well, is it not attempting to maximize to focus on a role outside the intended main role in a party? You are technically trying to strive for more damage and swapping between a stance that makes your healing very weak for the sole purpose of making a dungeon go faster. That does sound like striving to maximize all what you are capable of.

For the second part, refer to my previous reply to the person I quoted above yours.

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Originally Posted by FunkyBunch

It's not outside their initial role.

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Healing is their role, that's why they are referred to as Healer, anything else is a bonus. When the game starts being designed around Healer DPS, that is when it becomes their mandatory role to DPS and not an optional choice to help defeat a Savage run, or to speed along a Dungeon run.

https://i.imgur.com/NawXEHz.png

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FFS, the Hall of the Novice bloody tells you to DPS when no one needs healing. They even changed the text to add that.

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Actually, they don't tell you to DPS at all. They state that it might be possible to also DPS at times if you have the time for it.

https://i.imgur.com/ziZgMXr.png

They also go on about focusing on healing afterwards, twice.

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It's the I have a Green Icon so I can stand around doing jack squat 90% of the time and be lazy is the attitude I have a problem with.

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Do you realize that some people might not actually be as skilled as you are and cannot DPS and heal due to coordination issues? Or being inexperienced? Or that some people would rather focus on keeping the party alive then speeding up a dungeon by however percent to swap into Cleric Stance? Not everyone can handle this, and to some people they aren't merely "standing around", they are just as engaged in the fight as you are, they just don't have the same skill level.

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If they can't even do what the Hall of the Novice says, (DPS when no one needs Healing) they should either learn a class they can play properly, or go play another game.

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Disgusting behavior. It's examples like this of what I have an issue with. Mandating someone do something their way, or what they personally perceive as mandatory or competent, and if that person doesn't live up to their expectations, go play another game.

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It's pretty sad, when a level 60 BLM/NIN decides to try out SCH and consistently is better than most other healers despite having zero experience.
I've had players get mad at me because they're DPS and I out DPS them.

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Sounds like you're pretty proud of yourself here. Congratulations on being able to DPS on Scholar, the easiest of the jobs to Stance Dance with, after playing two DPS jobs to level 60.

Clearly those healers who cannot DPS anywhere close to you are bad at healing when they keep everyone alive throughout the run.

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Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko

Sounds like you're pretty proud of yourself here. Congratulations on being able to DPS on Scholar, the easiest of the jobs to Stance Dance with, after playing two DPS jobs to level 60.

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I agree with your whole post, maybe not on the aggressiveness but your points are solid, and your mention about SCH is what made me quit the job. Too many SCHs get away with just cleric stancing forever.

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Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko

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As a tank: is it ok for me to skip maim and storms eye as a WAR? is it ok for me to never goring blade or royal authority anything on PLD? That is closer in line because tank damage isn't part of fights either, and you know, its not my job to dps, only keep hate with my enmity combo.

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Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko

Do you realize that some people might not actually be as skilled as you are and cannot DPS and heal due to coordination issues? Or being inexperienced? Or that some people would rather focus on keeping the party alive then speeding up a dungeon by however percent to swap into Cleric Stance? Not everyone can handle this, and to some people they aren't merely "standing around", they are just as engaged in the fight as you are, they just don't have the same skill level.

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Cleric stance isn't mentioned, you can throw out dots (even if its just dots) without cleric stance in between cures, in dungeon runs there is plenty of downtime, enough time to throw out a dot or two without any hardship at all. Yes cleric stance is something that is a bonus , and skilled healers will definately stance dance and show off their pro skills, an average to amateur healer can throw out their basic dots and keep their safety net of extra healing as needed without an issue.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Cleric stance isn't mentioned, you can throw out dots (even if its just dots) without cleric stance in between cures, in dungeon runs there is plenty of downtime, enough time to throw out a dot or two without any hardship at all. Yes cleric stance is something that is a bonus , and skilled healers will definately stance dance and show off their pro skills, an average to amateur healer can throw out their basic dots and keep their safety net of extra healing as needed without an issue.

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Let's stop with this ok? Everyone knows that after you start getting MND-only gear trying to DPS without CS is absolutely USELESS. If you're going to dps, do it while in CS, or just save your time buffing or doing another thing. This is not the first time I see people bringing this type of misinformation in the thread and it's really annoying.

And yes, it's ok in my point of view to not use Maim or DPS combos while tanking, as long as you are keeping hate/mitigating. Is it desirable? Absolutely not, but if I see someone doing it in DF I'd just sigh and carry on with the run and complain later to my friends.

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Originally Posted by zuzu-bq

I agree with your whole post, maybe not on the aggressiveness but your points are solid, and your mention about SCH is what made me quit the job. Too many SCHs get away with just cleric stancing forever.

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What do you mean, "get away with?" If a SCH can keep the party alive, get the run done, all while being in Cleric Stance for well over half the run, what are they getting away with? Being good at their job?