Bard should have been something like this...

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Originally Posted by ErBear

There was use with every class in ffxi just had to utilize each of there strengths and bard in ffxi was one of the most useful jobs but you didn't need it. People just wen with the most efficiant as they do with any game, though I'm not that type of person I like to play what I play dispite what others want and still do all the content just fine. Example: I was a Thf/War, never subbed ninja.

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This is not true. PUP was never accepted for any kind of endgame content; the only way your PUP would be involved in such content is if you created the group yourself, or your LSmates took pity on you. DNC was pretty much the same way, a great solo job but among the last to be invited to anything worthwhile.

Your THF/WAR would be a stain on the ground in the revamped Ark Angel fights. The AAs regularly use aoes that will one-shot even full ilvl 119 players (the current max) if they don't block the attacks with shadows. Of course, for that very reason, front-line jobs are rarely invited to those fights at all, as they need to sacrifice offense (from WAR and SAM subs) for defense (NIN sub); instead people invite only RNG (and SAMs who have sufficiently powerful endgame bows).

You're correct that a sufficiently determined niche job may be able to schmooze their way into whatever endgame activity they want, but don't delude yourself into believing that you're WELCOME there. People will always prefer you to attend on a so-called "useful" job.

I'm already miffed that they might be changing the bard lb based on some of the fan fest q&a - if it's just the animantion to be a bard singing for a mass heal/rez then sure... if they are changing it to damage then really please no. I like my bard the way it is. More songs yes; mixing CDs with song - sure sounds interesting - basically advance bard; major changes NO.

I'd like to see an aura around the bard that would show a note here and there that shows the area the song has an effect on - different coloured auras for different songs - it should be minimal similar to the thundestorm aoe or something like that.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

This is not true. PUP was never accepted for any kind of endgame content; the only way your PUP would be involved in such content is if you created the group yourself, or your LSmates took pity on you. DNC was pretty much the same way, a great solo job but among the last to be invited to anything worthwhile.

Your THF/WAR would be a stain on the ground in the revamped Ark Angel fights. The AAs regularly use aoes that will one-shot even full ilvl 119 players (the current max) if they don't block the attacks with shadows. Of course, for that very reason, front-line jobs are rarely invited to those fights at all, as they need to sacrifice offense (from WAR and SAM subs) for defense (NIN sub); instead people invite only RNG (and SAMs who have sufficiently powerful endgame bows).

You're correct that a sufficiently determined niche job may be able to schmooze their way into whatever endgame activity they want, but don't delude yourself into believing that you're WELCOME there. People will always prefer you to attend on a so-called "useful" job.

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That is actually a failing of the game's designers not the classes. Tell the designers to stop making encounters only beatable through a single mechanic tied to a couple 'useful' classes as you put it. Maybe put some extra effort in and make encounters with multiple ways to success. Everything these days is just stack everything on the tank and either rotate through marks or AoE until the enemy is dead while making sure you are not standing in something bad.... *yawn* God when did designers stop giving a damn about their content?

Why cant bard do dmg with singing... :(

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

Yes, I hope they revamp bard at some point. Currently it's just a glorified archer, not bardy at all. It should be about buffs, debuffs, and party support, not damage.

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There is hope. We saw in the past where they completely rewrote classes to fit a model, the mages come to mind. There is certainly a desire for it from the player base. Maybe we will get a happy surprise in 3.0 in the form of a revamped Bard and a true DPS Ranger. One can dream.

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Originally Posted by ErBear

Bard kinda sucked on Mabinogi, but it was the best implementation of it I have ever seen.

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Surely if it kinda sucked, then it wasn't the best implementation.

Kinda tired so I kinda skipped over reading posts that arn't on the 1st page but since its a bard thread here's my 2 gil, rename Bard to Ranger replace the songs with Ranger stuff, and when 3.0 hits and jobs can exist without class's give us a bard that is actually a bard...
Barcher is alright, I enjoy it and all, but i'd much much rather have a real bard AND a true archer and not a hybrid :3

P.S I also really want Dancer as a TP using healer ♥

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Originally Posted by Mizore_Canaan

Kinda tired so I kinda skipped over reading posts that arn't on the 1st page but since its a bard thread here's my 2 gil, rename Bard to Ranger replace the songs with Ranger stuff, and when 3.0 hits and jobs can exist without class's give us a bard that is actually a bard...
Barcher is alright, I enjoy it and all, but i'd much much rather have a real bard AND a true archer and not a hybrid :3

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The entire aesthetic of the bard is...well, bardlike. They'd have to go back and redo the way ALL the armor looks to do that.
Also...now follow me here...
It is a really, really bad idea to change the fundamentals of an entire job/class over a year after the game goes live.
It's been tried before, and it's like trying to change a beehive into a baseball bat.
Bards are the way they are. It's not changing, or at least not as drastically as people in this thread want.

One of my all time favorite bards was RIFT. So many songs, so many buffs. Sure you could spec pure barcher but nothing was as satisfying as some tool tank complaining I am buffing/debuffing/regen/nuking/etc. tell me to switch to DPS only to have us wipe two pulls later. He asked me to go back to singing and we breezed through the rest of the instance. No support classes should not be required and content should be doable without them but to have them should always make your life a little nicer... that's the whole point of the word SUPPORT.

Game where bards took skill- Everquest
Game where bards look cool - Aion

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

Game where bards took skill- Everquest
Game where bards look cool - Aion

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I suppose 'cool' is kind of subjective. ;) In Aion, cool would not have been the word I would have used to describe male bards....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E606uHz8gss

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Originally Posted by Erana

Surely if it kinda sucked, then it wasn't the best implementation.

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I'm guessing you never played mabinogi, it was the best implementations that I have ever seen, just because it sucked at combat doesn't mean it wasn't fantastic at other things, like, something that is most important in an mmo, the social aspect. Though with mabinogi you could be two classes at once.

When I got into this game I wanted a range dps that didn't rely on magic, and Bard was the only one available.

I don't like healing and I don't like tanking, so it's perfect for me.

Honestly, I help so much as support and dps that it surprises me people don't appreciate brds more. It's sad they want us to be fully support and take dps from us.

Geez...

On a side note, we are on the first lv cap, expect us to have more support mechanisms as we reach new lv caps. Stop thinking this is all that bard will ever be.

The only chance for it to be more like the bards from previous FF games is if it were a healer and even in this case the healing aspect would have to be weak lest other healing classes complain

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Originally Posted by kyuven

The entire aesthetic of the bard is...well, bardlike. They'd have to go back and redo the way ALL the armor looks to do that.
Also...now follow me here...
It is a really, really bad idea to change the fundamentals of an entire job/class over a year after the game goes live.
It's been tried before, and it's like trying to change a beehive into a baseball bat.
Bards are the way they are. It's not changing, or at least not as drastically as people in this thread want.

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I don't think swapping out 5 job skills and renaming the job counts as drastic, and as I said, this should be done in 3.0 they don't have to change the old stuff that way, its useless by then anyway and it gives people who played then a "hey look" gear set to show of to people who join in after expac

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Originally Posted by AsakuraVN

Ahhh, good memories... I wish one day I had a chance to play another MMO where ppl can sit around a campfire, cooking & singing for each other, enjoying their time as the night pass... There's no other timesinks as much fun as in Mabi <.<

Bards in this game is a joke :(
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you only say that because you don't know how to play it to its best.

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Originally Posted by Flionheart

Not having cures or raises is even more silly. Even a song raise would be cool.

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They do. Its called Bard LB3. http://r23.imgfast.net/users/2315/26.../736120395.png

You know, in ffxi Bards and Rangers where 2 different jobs, why couldn't they do the same with FFXIV?

I would have loved to see more support utility with Bard songs. Right now we get Foe Requiem, Army's Paeon and Mage's Ballad. Well, and Swiftsong... but no one counts Swiftsong. They're great skills, but very niche. Most good mages can manage their MP fine, bard or not since there's no guarantee you'll have a bard in your party anyway. TP can be beneficial, but it regenerates fairly fast so again, not too often used. Foe Requiem is awesome if you have a mage in your team, and is easily the best one we have as it has no drawbacks to casting it.

I'd like to see some damage buffs for melee, evasion buffs or maybe even a party wide defense buff through songs. There's a lot of scope for Bard which isn't being utilized at present.

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Originally Posted by Mizore_Canaan

I don't think swapping out 5 job skills and renaming the job counts as drastic, and as I said, this should be done in 3.0 they don't have to change the old stuff that way, its useless by then anyway and it gives people who played then a "hey look" gear set to show of to people who join in after expac

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when they're integral to the playing style, yes, yes it's drastic. At that point you may as well keep bards the way they are and just make a new job.

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Originally Posted by Flionheart

People always said they found it boring, but what about those of us who enjoyed it in XI?

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Ppl bringing up BRD from XI also need to realize 2 things.

On paper: It was a very unique support job, multiple instruments and a main weapon type. It's concept and original practice in RotZ was a Bard.

Reality (Community): BRD was used heavily in XP grinds before Aby. Endgame Zergs you were a party swapper rotating songs or songs before a fight and dropped. You also had to compete against COR which was more of a hybrid role. Making the job more of a niche and less desired.

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Originally Posted by Flionheart

The current BRD just doesn't support enough.

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Many don't find out Bard's full complement until content like Coil. Sad but true, it is a testing ground that separates a Rng DPS from a true Bard. Your Songs and the management of them are relied on heavily by Healer and DPS roles.

I'm really not gonna take a side on this. Just illustrating how heavily the community has impacted Bard in XI and currently in XIV.

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Originally Posted by Shadex

I suppose 'cool' is kind of subjective. ;) In Aion, cool would not have been the word I would have used to describe male bards....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E606uHz8gss

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Well, male bards were pretty..fabulous. But I still like that better than archers with a song mechanic just bolted on to the job.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

This was largely a way to get more people to play the class. in XI too many people wanted bards but not enough people wanted to play them. Bards were in XI what the tanks are in this game- the class everyone wanted and no one had or wanted to play. That's no longer the case. The ONLY issue I have is that i'd rather have had 2 more songs rather than the attack and soul voice (which is good but not worth a slot that could have had another distinct song).

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I have to say I was a little surprised by the damaging attack in there. Really, I'd have made Swiftsong a Bard song and had RoD be an Archer native skill. And then perhaps remove Swiftsong and replace it with something else.

But I agree with the other points you mention, particularly that we will see more songs added as the level cap increases. There are 5 abilities for a Job, so there could have been, at most 5 songs for Bard. Of course, 1 is replaced with a special boost ability that is useful when it's needed. So 3 out of 4 isn't that bad.

I was also one of those who despised Bard in XI. The idea of just standing around waiting for songs to wear off so I could be useful again... not fun. And the subpar healing side of things was also terrible. Even that was used simply because there was nothing better to do. If I wanted healing, though, I'd have brought a healer.

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Originally Posted by Themis

I was also one of those who despised Bard in XI. The idea of just standing around waiting for songs to wear off so I could be useful again... not fun. And the subpar healing side of things was also terrible. Even that was used simply because there was nothing better to do. If I wanted healing, though, I'd have brought a healer.

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Why I wasn't thrilled about the healing/minor support side of Bard in 1.xx. Felt like I was taking away the main purpose of a healer as my purpose was the utility of my songs and DPS. When Bard was released in 1.xx to now, it has a DPS Job with song management for utility. We are getting the same type of complaints for DRK becoming a Tank, nothing new.

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

RIFT and Dragon Age have barchers

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Actually Rift's brd is just under the rogue tree and if u pair it with other roles it can shoot but all of the actual brd abilities use some sort of instrument to display brd abilities. iirc