Terminology. Why does it bug me and others?

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Originally Posted by Flionheart

Tank and spank is about the only one that annoys me.

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I heard two people say it before and I was like "Do people REALLY say that?" lol

The only time I am bothered is when people say ARC but are referring to arcanist...'are you talking about archer or arcanist?'

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Originally Posted by Benzareli

You just need a more worldly view of language. WoW didn't coin any of those terms.

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This.

It aggravates me, not when people use different terminology (for the most part) but when people attribute terminology (and other things) to WoW, since as we all know, there were no MMO's before WoW...

In fact, most of the terminology (and other things) predate even MMO's and originated in MUDs (and some even predate video games entirely...)

I use DPS and I've never even played WoW and as someone else stated, DPS was around even before WoW.

Just for "sh*t and giggles".

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Damage Per Second has been around since before Diablo. A lot of table top RPG games with lots of numbers brought about the inception of the term. However, widely popular community games like Diablo 2, Everquest, World of Warcraft, Neverwinter Nights, and quite few others 9 years ago made the term more widely used in the RPG Genre by the populace and developers alike.

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http://dungeondefenders2.com/forum/a...p/t-74429.html

As for the "pally" comment on paladin, I used to play Ragnarok Online and people would sometimes call the paladins "pally" over there.
Could be that the person came from there and not WoW ;)

People need to stop with the "Stop using WoW terminology!" when it's very likely that it does not even come from WoW.
A lot of us didn't play FF11, however, that doesn't mean we all come from WoW either.

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Originally Posted by Vondoomervil

TOON. kills me every time.

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I hate that one as well.. I dunno why people even started to say that instead of "character"...

This reminds me of when I first started using <job> shortcut lol. It bugs the hell out of me that, for example, <job> translates into marauder(30) or some such. I've been on XI since U.S. release and I guess I'm just far too used to <job> being set up as I dunno...DNC50/NIN25 type lol. If they would at least make it Marauder with the capital M, maybe it wouldn't seem so odd to me. Just seems like it is technically a job title, so it should be capitalized @.@. Nitpicking most likely, but just one of those things xD

shows you who this game is made for, even the dev team uses WoW terms.

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Originally Posted by indira

shows you who this game is made for, even the dev team uses WoW terms.

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I would be very surprised if even 5% of these terms originated in WoW.

I've been playing MMOs, MUDs, and tabletop long before WoW was a concept and the majority of these terms were used then.

I've always learned DD as Direct-Damage, being a damage type. Hearing Damage Dealer confused me at first.

DPS as a role does make sense if you think about it. A Pally (Yes, I use the name Pally. Again, not from WoW. I picked it up playing table-top when we actually had to say the names of classes. We just shortened it to "Pally" when we said it and it kinda stuck) would be considered a Tank role. They take the damage. That's what they bring to the group. A White Mage would be the Healer, they bring healing to the group as their primary purpose. A Monk would be DPS. That's what they bring to the group and the primary focus of those sorts of classes is to do the most damage in the least amount of time. Hence DPS.

The first time I heard the phrase "Bubble" to describe a damage ward/absorption type ability was playing Dark Age of Camelot where the wardens had a spell that would do just that. The spell animation was to create a big bubble around the character for a few seconds. And just for reference, this pre-dates WoW by about 3 years or so I think.

agreed even moreso in real life. walk up to a fellow MMO gamer hey what role do you typically play? i'm a DPSer bro. OR i'm a damage dealer. dps and dpser whether in game or real life just simply sound stupid to me

I didn't really bring this up claiming that WoW created the terminology. The origin of the terms, I would say, is rather irrelevant.

I made the thread out of curiosity as to why terms from other MMOs were looked down upon in this one, even by me.

Ultimately it comes back to FFXI. The community within that game tends to be viewed by MMO's at large as self-conceited. This colored their interactions with other MMO communities, which drove them back together. This made a self-fulfilling system that made the FFXI community insular. So "their" terms, became the "right" terms.

does the phrase "sword and board" offend you? people need to learn to adapt and realize the world doesn't revolve around them. much like in real life different terminology is going to be used based on someones experiences and to totally disregard someone based on the terminology used is probably the most ignorant thing someone can do. don't like the term? don't use it but don't feel the need to express yourself or your point of view on someone who uses it.

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Originally Posted by chubnasty

does the phrase "sword and board" offend you? people need to learn to adapt and realize the world doesn't revolve around them. much like in real life different terminology is going to be used based on someones experiences and to totally disregard someone based on the terminology used is probably the most ignorant thing someone can do. don't like the term? don't use it but don't feel the need to express yourself or your point of view on someone who uses it.

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Never going to accept "toon" and never going to not disregard some one for using it. It's bad terminology and bad or wrong terminology causes confusion. So, yes, I am going to correct some one when they use the bad/wrong terminology.

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Originally Posted by chubnasty

does the phrase "sword and board" offend you? people need to learn to adapt and realize the world doesn't revolve around them. much like in real life different terminology is going to be used based on someones experiences and to totally disregard someone based on the terminology used is probably the most ignorant thing someone can do. don't like the term? don't use it but don't feel the need to express yourself or your point of view on someone who uses it.

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Offend? No.
Annoy? Hell yes.
Not a fan of dumb obnoxious terms.

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Originally Posted by Zyeriis

Never going to accept "toon" and never going to not disregard some one for using it. It's bad terminology and bad or wrong terminology causes confusion. So, yes, I am going to correct some one when they use the bad/wrong terminology.

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Explain how toon is bad/wrong and even confusing?

I didn't like it at first, but I got used to it. Perhaps you'll get use to it too lol

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Originally Posted by Nanga

The Dev team uses the term, "DPS" when describing the game, in some of their Dev videos. So, I'm pretty sure if the guys who made the game are using it in describing their game, that it's also part of this game.

Also, DD means, "direct damage", and doesn't necessarily mean the same thing anymore. Games have evolved to where damage is coming from many different sources - some direct, and some indirect (a poisonous area on the ground is considered an in-direct source of damage, as are most environmental effects).

DPS is a universal measurement of damage from ALL measurable sources over a set period of time.

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DD is "damage dealer", so its actually the universal term.

A shout saying

/shout LF 1 dps

Is actually saying

/shout looking for 1 damage per second

Which really makes me want to join and auto attack and go on about how awesome im doing for doing more damage than what's expected.

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Originally Posted by yokan

Explain how toon is bad/wrong and even confusing?

I didn't like it at first, but I got used to it. Perhaps you'll get use to it too lol

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Explain how it makes any sense and isn't an incessantly childish way of referring to one's character (and other's characters) and maybe I'll divulge the obvious reasons as to why it's so infuriating and confusing. I'd also like to know where this "term" originated. And no, I'll never get used to it. It's been years since I first heard some one say it. I hate it even more now than i did then. All it's good for is trolling and/or destroying other's respect.

Pally/PLD
Toon/Character/Avatar
DD/DPS
Sword and Board
Threat/Enmity

I have seen them all used and I use them all interchangeably. None of them bother me and it doesn't bother me to use them. We come from all walks of life and come from various different gaming backgrounds. For example I first started my career in UO(Ultima Online if anyone needs to know) WoW, SWTOR, TERA Online, Rift, DCUO, DDO, LoL. I have played numerous MMO's and MOBA's each for varying degrees of time both free to play, pay to play, and pay to win. So in the end be excellent to yourselves, and each other no matter the terms they use or the terms you decide personally you want to use.

Philosopher here. You can take many approaches to this, depending on your viewpoints:

1. Objects have meanings in and of themselves. In this regard, a "Pally" is not a "Paladin," because "Pally" refers to a specific thing, that being the entity of a paladin from WoW and not a paladin in FFXIV.

2. The mental image of a "damage dealer" and "dps" are different, so to attach the word "dps" to someone who deals damage is wrong, as it doesn't match up to the mental image.

3. The communal understanding of the words do not include the instances to which you're adverse.

4. The agreed upon terms do not include the instances of the words to which you're adverse.

5. Words are meaningless and you arbitrarily take offense to specific instances because you're absurd, just like the rest of us.

I need to go to bed.

Communication
1. The act of communicating; transmission.
a. The exchange of thoughts, messages, or information, as by speech, signals, writing, or behavior.

Everyone knows what these terms mean, being hipster about it is childish.

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Originally Posted by Ultimaetus

Communication
1. The act of communicating; transmission.
a. The exchange of thoughts, messages, or information, as by speech, signals, writing, or behavior.

Everyone knows what these terms mean, being hipster about it is childish.

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Childish
2. marked by or suggestive of immaturity and lack of poise
b. lacking complexity

Ironic.

A minority (FF community) is always more protective about its right to be different or what distinguis them for the larger masses, this discussion about DD or DPS etc reminds me of how the EVE community would erupt in flames if you said "quest" instead of "missions".

Not to accept what could be described as "synonyms" in the much greater community of MMO's which expand far wider then any single game makes you small and ignorant.

oh god, now we have terminology nazis, what has the world come to?

The term DPS annoys me but as SE has decided to use it we will go with it. Apart from that we should use terminology from previous Final Fantasy games as you know this is a Final Fantasy game.

Don't be hatin'! This toon's alt is 15 gladiator and I'm thinking of rerolling pally because I've heard warriors struggle with threat (but their dps is better than pally I think?). I might be too lazy though and maybe I'll just end up taking the lvl 22 taunt spell from gladiator instead. (assuming my guild is gonna find warriors acceptable to tank in raids)

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Originally Posted by Jeronlmo

DD is "damage dealer", so its actually the universal term.

A shout saying

/shout LF 1 dps

Is actually saying

/shout looking for 1 damage per second

Which really makes me want to join and auto attack and go on about how awesome im doing for doing more damage than what's expected.

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Only in FFXI does "DD" = "damage dealer"

Everywhere else, DD is used to describe an ability. DD, DoT, HoT, DH, AoE DD, AoE DoT... these are all terminologies used in the earliest MMOs, predating FFXI.

And a shout saying "LF 1 DPS" is actually saying "looking for 1 dps". You believe "dps" is an abbreviation, but its actually become a colloquial noun, sort of like how "tank" doesn't actually mean tank, or how "mob" doesn't actually mean mob.

From what I've gathered and heard DD was only widely used in FFXIV (or more precise, DPS was not used in FFXI).

I've been using DPS in every game, I've seen every person use it, and I'm talking about EQ as well (pre-FFXI); in fact, pally was also used there, before WoW and FFXI.

This probably has to do with your nostalgia and inner-hate (or looking down on non-FFXI players) towards other newer games you couldn't get to play or despised the community.

In fact I hate it when I see "Heal looking for ___" or "Looking for Heal", it not only makes no sense but also sounds really wrong (no grammatical coordination whatsoever?), I assumed this comes from FFXI.

That did not come from XI. No one runs around shouting healer or dps lfg
As an example of a shout for an event called Voidwatch in XI
VW Qilin (Do you Need it?) 4/18 WHMx2 BRDx2 PLD NIN BLMx2 MNK SAM (Can I have it?) /tell <me>

Someone got really arsey with me when I said 'dd' instead of 'dps.' I lost a lot of sleep that night D:

as for damage dealers i use DPS because Im used to DD being "direct damage"

and pally should be called stunb*tch :D

Could someone explain to me what's so terrible about "toon"? English isn't my first language, so perhaps the reason I don't understand the problem is that something is lost in translation.

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Originally Posted by Vondoomervil

TOON. kills me every time.

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This, +1

Also any abbreviation/acronym that is incorrect AND is longer than the correct abbreviation bugs me as well. Just like the "Pally" example. PLD or Pala are both shorter and correct.

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Originally Posted by Callidous

Could someone explain to me what's so terrible about "toon"? English isn't my first language, so perhaps the reason I don't understand the problem is that something is lost in translation.

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Because toon doesn't sound like anything game-like and I don't see why people can't just call it "char"/"chara" or "character" as they have been from the beginning.

There was no reason at all to invent a new term when "char" is just as short.

People who never played WoW or hate WoW are more stuck on that game than anyone else. Terms like DPS, Toon, and Pally have been used in several games BEFORE WoW, including Everquest and Ultima Online. But all these people want to see is World of Warcraft.

Every time I see a thread like this or heal someone say something like this, I can't help but wonder if they think WoW was the first MMO...

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Originally Posted by Ryuni

Because toon doesn't sound like anything game-like and I don't see why people can't just call it "char"/"chara" or "character" as they have been from the beginning.

There was no reason at all to invent a new term when "char" is just as short.

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Toon is from before even EQ. I first saw it in Ultima online back in '97. The thought process was basically character -> cartoon character -> cartoon -> toon. There was a certain disconnect to characters back then, due to both graphics and gameplay styles, so players were neither as attached to nor as immersed in their characters in games like that as they are now.

After 15 years, I still use the term to to this day.

What the hell is Snow and Board lmao?

For me...Toon ultimately. Screw me, I HATE TOON!! D<
We aren't Looney Toons, Tiny Toons or from Toon Town. It just irritates me and
that is the first thing to comes to mind.
Awful. I also don't really like, "LM TANK AND GTG." I keep thinking Gotta go? xD!
But yeah Toons just go over my head lmao.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...nes_careta.png
Ok tunes...but whatever! XD

I only have come across one term that bothers me thus far, which is of course. "toon". They are characters, not toons. Toon is shorthand for a cartoon film/show. It sometimes has been used to also be a synonym for a personal on-screen avatar which is how it is being used here. In this game however they are not supposed to represent you, they are supposed to be characters in this world, which you play. They aren't some cartoon representation of you, they are a character you are playing.

I know few people agree with me on this, so I typically will just let it slide but I will never approve of it.

Also pally is a little weird to me, because it isn't short hand (PLD is easier), so what purpose does it serve? I suppose it could come from environments where audio chat is the norm, since pally might be easier to verbalize than paladin. (And no one would say PLD).

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Originally Posted by Tolmos

People who never played WoW or hate WoW are more stuck on that game than anyone else. Terms like DPS, Toon, and Pally have been used in several games BEFORE WoW, including Everquest and Ultima Online. But all these people want to see is World of Warcraft.

Every time I see a thread like this or heal someone say something like this, I can't help but wonder if they think WoW was the first MMO...



Toon is from before even EQ. I first saw it in Ultima online back in '97. The thought process was basically character -> cartoon character -> cartoon -> toon. There was a certain disconnect to characters back then, due to both graphics and gameplay styles, so players were neither as attached to nor as immersed in their characters in games like that as they are now.

After 15 years, I still use the term to to this day.

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My point still stands. It was called character/char before people started using toon. It's just one of those unnecessary terms, I never knew about the thought process about it and even now when I know it, I don't see the point of it.
I'm not overly fond of unnecessary terms/abbreviations.

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Originally Posted by Ryuni

It was called character/char before people started using toon. It's just one of those unnecessary terms, I never knew about the thought process about it and even now when I know it, I don't see the point of it.

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This is highly debatable. The first time I personally saw it was in 97, but that was hardly the first year of MMOs. It's been attributed as far back as MUDs, so I'd venture to guess both have been used nearly an equivalent amount of time.

Plus, saying "char" outloud just sounds silly to me. Probably as silly as "toon" sounds to you. We're not carebears.

So, my point still stands. Toon is just as valid, and probably as old, as "char".

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Originally Posted by Dyrstahl

Don't be hatin'! This toon's alt is 15 gladiator and I'm thinking of rerolling pally because I've heard warriors struggle with threat (but their dps is better than pally I think?). I might be too lazy though and maybe I'll just end up taking the lvl 22 taunt spell from gladiator instead. (assuming my guild is gonna find warriors acceptable to tank in raids)

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I don't know who you are, but I love you and you're my hero.

We say;

dps
/whisper
buff
debuff
DoT
HoT
proc
pally
war
toon
lfg
lfm
etc...


It doesn't seem to matter. People in general are smart enough to understand what you mean. Also, these terms are so widely spread in the MMO world, almost everyone knows them.

Why would anyone care if you say sum, summ or smr. If you don't understand summ means summoner you're just stupid. Whining about how others refer to their toons is even worse. Get a life man.

DD and DPS are both pretty vague no matter how you say it because an AFK DRG doesn't do either of the following.

I much prefer "DPS", but ghad I hate "toon". No idea why. I say "PC", or just "character".