"First time here"

Breaking news!
Taking 2 minutes to explain each fights will make you gain much more time than wiping because you're terrorizing new players and they refuse to tell they're new or everybody's gonna leave.

There is no excuse to enter the Binding Coil of Bahamut without at least SOME knowledge, however vague, of what you're getting into.

ALL OTHER DUNGEONS can and should be learned on the spot through a nice, generous group member explaining the fights to you like a civilized, well-intentioned person. Titan is kind of a fringe case, because while it CAN be learned on the spot, most people are understandably frustrated with it and don't want to deal with that, and I was in that position for a while too.

Unfortunately it would appear OP is an elitist and not the kind of person you'd want to group with in the Duty Finder, though. A sad demonstration of the community's lower quality points.

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Originally Posted by xXHalloweenTrixXx

Before I did all my end game dungeons and HM primal battles I watched video guides on Youtube first. I think its only fair to not be a deadweight in the group. The information is out there to be seen/read. You won't be perfect on your first run but at least you will have the general idea of how the battle is. Which can save you from some damage or wiping.

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I have to agree with this and I did the same thing. After I ran CM/AK/Prae/HM Primals enough times I lost interest in explaining to people how to run the dungeon.

A wise man once said, "Get out of bad shit and kill adds." This applies to like 95% of encounters.

The only content I have pre-read information for is Titan, and even then it didn't really help as much as doing the fight firsthand. I guess reading up on the Coil is only necessary if you are going with people you don't know for whatever reason.

Everything else is pretty intuitive as to what exactly you have to do to not die.

Some people learn things better on the fly. Like me. I go in dungeons not knowing what to expect, and I am a tank.

Once I do know what to do however, no matter if it's the 10th time or the 100th time I run the dungeon, if I see a new guy, I will always ask him to follow my lead, and explain boss fights. It's really not that hard to be a nice person, you know? I don't get this obsession over "my time". I'm assuming OP is also not the sort of person to help people who are looking for a tank/healer in a dungeon like Toto-Rak or Brayflox because people are not worth his time to help.

Do your part to help the community grow. I'm hearing all these terror stories about new players not wanting to say they're new because they'll get ragged on. I was helping some FC mates in Praetorium yesterday, and there was one guy from DF who told me he got ragged on for not skipping cutscenes, that he actually gave in to peer pressure and skipped them. I actually felt sorry for him, and told him to take his time to watch all the cutscenes this time instead, because they are that good. People simply have no more patience in the world for other people anymore. It's as if nobody has compassion or helpfulness anymore.

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Originally Posted by rahvinus

It'll be a cold day in hell before I study a guide or videos before being allowed to play. What did people like you do before Google and YouTube? I'd rather play the game.

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That's the way I feel. If you want to give some tips or things to look for, fine, but I learn better by experience. I just did Qarn this weekend, and one person out of the four had done it before and was trying to explain the boss fight to us, but it was just confusing what he was saying. At a certain point the other three of us just said, "Let's just do this and we'll figure it out. May take a couple times." And that's exactly what happened. Died the first time, but figured out what we did wrong, said, "Okay, now we got it." Went back in and got the win. Point is, there's no replacement for experience. Just go in and play and figure things out, and if you die you die. It happens. Learn from it and go back in and get the win.

A lot of people prefer to play games without knowing what to expect. It's definitely more challenging and more fun to learn as you go. And I daresay that method is more "hardcore" than looking everything up on youtube before you try it.

The cool thing about video games, is you can try something, fail, and try again. Nobody is really dead and nobodies life is truly effected. It was meant for fun. Why try to fight the fun so much?

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Originally Posted by Naberrie

That's the way I feel. If you want to give some tips or things to look for, fine, but I learn better by experience. I just did Qarn this weekend, and one person out of the four had done it before and was trying to explain the boss fight to us, but it was just confusing what he was saying. At a certain point the other three of us just said, "Let's just do this and we'll figure it out. May take a couple times." And that's exactly what happened. Died the first time, but figured out what we did wrong, said, "Okay, now we got it." Went back in and got the win. Point is, there's no replacement for experience. Just go in and play and figure things out, and if you die you die. It happens. Learn from it and go back in and get the win.

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Problem is people are afraid of wiping now, or any delay really. For example, while doing CM last night all of the canons got destroyed due to a bad pull. Without a word, four people left.

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Originally Posted by Puck

Problem is people are afraid of wiping now, or any delay really. For example, while doing CM last night all of the canons got destroyed due to a bad pull. Without a word, four people left.

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well, I mean, that does considerably slow down the fight and is early on enough that it would likely be faster to drop group and start over... unless you are talking about the cannons on the 2nd to last boss, in which case WTF is wrong with them.

Unless you have REALLY strong DPS, killing all that trash without the cannons takes forever... I will only tolerate it (although I really don't like it) if the second group of cannons stays up. but if we were to lose both sets, I would likely get the strong urge to leave as well.

Edit: I am not saying I would leave, just saying I would have the strong urge TO leave... course I normally speed run the place with a total premade, so it hasn't been an issue for quite some time.

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Originally Posted by Evilized6666

This is no excuse to not have any clue what a boss does, run around face pulling packs, and standing in every single red circle on the ground, while showing up in white gear.

Google exists use it.


*this really only applies to the level 50 dungeons/raids

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No one should be expected to know what is going to happen in a dungeon if they have never been there, they are so easy there is no reason they cannot learn along the way. Almost all dungeon bosses the explanation for the fight is "Dont stand in stuff". This is what I do when someone is new, I just tell them "For this boss, Don't stand in stuff", I know that is a lot of words to type but it will save you some time in the long run. Maybe for raids unless your group wants to learn it on their own, which is how I prefer to do it. There is no puggable raid content in this game, so I am not sure what you mean by raids?? Do you consider Primal HM's raids??lol Someone that is completely new to MMO's will probably have a bit more trouble but Google is not the answer.

All I can say so far up to CM, I've never really need to look up any videos or guides to actually understand the mechanics behind the boss fights. Its very straight forward. You see red stuffs on the group? Move away. As a tank, you see adds? Pick them up.

I have more of a problem when people try to wing it and wait until the wipe comes before saying "First time here."

^ considering the game tells you if someone is new at the start I don't understand your problem.

Trying to tell people to read up on a fight before they have ever done it is simply ridiculous. It is a fantasy role playing game. Many of us want to experience it for ourselves. You don't want to explain it 25 times? Fine, get yourself some friends and run a pre-made party instead of Duty Finding it.

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Originally Posted by elementxstyle

Actually, sometimes it doesn't tell you because they've killed the first boss or something and failed the rest. I've gone without any message saying "NEW" especially in HM primals. I was in an AK run where no one was "New to the dungeon" and at the 2nd boss we wiped. The guy said, "yeah I never made it up to this boss."

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Ah ok. and Yes if you ask and no one says anything I would be angry as well.

Actually, sometimes it doesn't tell you because they've killed the first boss or something and failed the rest. I've gone without any message saying "NEW" especially in HM primals. I was in an AK run where no one was "New to the dungeon" and at the 2nd boss we wiped. The guy said, "yeah I never made it up to this boss."

ESPECIALLY, when you ask in the beginning "everyone know the fight?" and there is silence. You mean to take the silence as an affirmation but some people are just too scared or something to say they are first timers. I have no problem with anyone wanting to learn as they go - but I'd love to know if we need to explain stuff before pulling.

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Originally Posted by tnkw

All I can say so far up to CM, I've never really need to look up any videos or guides to actually understand the mechanics behind the boss fights. Its very straight forward. You see red stuffs on the group? Move away. As a tank, you see adds? Pick them up.

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i didn't bother with guides except for hard mode primals and ultima weapon.

everything else was advice from people who had already cleared the dungeon.

I play a Warrior and a Bard.

First time in AK as a Warrior I died from Demon Wall because even though I've watched the video, experiencing it for the first time is so much different. When the bees came around I forgot about the Repel so I fell off - everyone left. That was fine with me because I could queue up and get another group almost instantly. Got through it fine the second time around with a Bard showing me how to position the last boss.

As a Bard, I joined an already existing dungeon where it was the Warrior's first time and the DPS had left leaving the healer and tank. I could empathize where he was coming from because that was me once. It took a minute to explain boss fights and we got through the dungeon easily.

I've run into people who are petrified at joining DF groups for new dungeons because there are so many people who literally would rather throw abuses, leave, and wait 30 minutes for a group to start again than to explain a fight in two minutes.

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Originally Posted by Wolfenhausen

I've run into people who are petrified at joining DF groups for new dungeons because there are so many people who literally would rather throw abuses, leave, and wait 30 minutes for a group to start again than to explain a fight in two minutes.

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For every jerk there is always a nice person, the other thing people jump to, too quickly, is to call out someone who is trying to help out as being a jerk (which I have had happen to me and I tend to respond in kind). But what I will say about those actually being a jerk is, so what? If they get mad and leave, they will be replaced, normally pretty quickly. The only exception to that is the HM Primals, because noone queues for those in-progress. If you are going to let some random person who you will likely never meet again affect your gameplay then you need to get a little thicker skin. Are they jerks? Probably. Should they be so mean? Probably not. But should you let it affect you? Hell no! The true jerks, that are doing it for kicks, relish in the fact that it upsets you. So not queuing, or getting upset by it, is what they WANT you to do... so don't let them win.

People are quiet when asked if new because 9 out of 10 times an elitist jerk will talk crap to them so they hope to just wing it.

While I was leveling I would alt-tab while in que and read up on every guide, from trash of note to the boss. I don't honestly expect other people to do the same, but it sure is nice.

As a tank the first thing I do is ask if anyone hasn't done the dungeon before or if it's my first time in the dungeon I'll let folks know it is and ask what the kill priority on trash mobs is. Then when I hit a boss I'll either give a cliffs notes version of what to expect or ask what to expect. It doesn't take long to do and if people are an asshole about it I quit the dungeon. Woot for Paladin instant queue.

*Note I'm only up to Cutters Cry. I plan on researching the Hard mode fights.

Watched H Ifrit fight once, downed the 2nd time. Third time the composition wasn't great, 2 warriors and no blm for limit. Down the boss the 2nd time.

This game isn't hard. Please don't discriminate 1st timers.

I personally didn't look up a single guide on any fights UNTIL Turn 2 of the Binding Coil. However, as a tank, I could actually afford this.

Pretty sure healers would want to know what to expect when doing Titan.

You only get to play it blind once, let them enjoy it while giving some tips.

If you don't want to que up with new people who might be doing it for their first time...form your own groups.

/solved

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Originally Posted by Varking

If you don't want to que up with new people who might be doing it for their first time...form your own groups.

/solved

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Pretty much that, a thousand times.

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Originally Posted by elementxstyle

You mean to take the silence as an affirmation but some people are just too scared or something to say they are first timers. I have no problem with anyone wanting to learn as they go - but I'd love to know if we need to explain stuff before pulling.

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I've seen some bad responses to "anyone new here?" in primals.

Case 1: A guy said, "I'm new." Other guy said, "Do you know the fight?" First guy says, "Ah, no, I haven't done it before." Second guy says, "Not my ****ing job to explain it to you" and then he quits.

Case 2: A guy said, "I'm new, but I've looked up the fight video." Other guy says, "Wow, first timer lol" (or something to that effect) and quits.

With the way people treat each other in duty finder, I'm not surprised that they don't talk.

Well, let's be honest here.

They're called HARD MODE Primals.

The word HARD is in there.

It's true they're not that difficult once you know the fight, but going in blind, you probably will get wrecked by something, and probably several times.

Can't hurt to take five seconds and read up on the fight beforehand.

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

I've seen some bad responses to "anyone new here?" in primals.

Case 1: A guy said, "I'm new." Other guy said, "Do you know the fight?" First guy says, "Ah, no, I haven't done it before." Second guy says, "Not my ****ing job to explain it to you" and then he quits.

Case 2: A guy said, "I'm new, but I've looked up the fight video." Other guy says, "Wow, first timer lol" (or something to that effect) and quits.

With the way people treat each other in duty finder, I'm not surprised that they don't talk.

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This is why we need "Join in Progress" enabled for HM primals. It's dumb that there's 80 minutes left of the trial, and because a bad egg left, the other 7 are screwed.

Okay well, I was going to disagree with you because I thought you were talking dungeons. Then I realized you are talking about primals.

There really isn't any excuse to loading into a primal fight blind. Either do it with your FC, if you have one, or check the wiki / other sites on google to learn what to do and expect for each phase of the fight. Primals are a big deal, and briefing yourself only takes a minute or two.

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Originally Posted by EdwinKaiser

Okay well, I was going to disagree with you because I thought you were talking dungeons. Then I realized you are talking about primals.

There really isn't any excuse to loading into a primal fight blind. Either do it with your FC, if you have one, or check the wiki / other sites on google to learn what to do and expect for each phase of the fight. Primals are a big deal, and briefing yourself only takes a minute or two.

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Honestly, it's different watching/reading up on a fight then actually participating in one...I mean, having some sort of idea is good beforehand, of course. If you explain a fight to me, I'm not going to actually know how I'll react until it actually happens. Obviously I'll move out of the red spot, or if I see other players run to a certain spot I'll do the same, but otherwise I just need to do it once to get it, know what I mean?

You should be grateful for those that know they have to say "first time here" in CM/AK. Some just don't think they need to. And no, I can't spend a minute explaining, no, not even half a minute explaining because they pull everything in 10 seconds before I finish typing anything.

As for HM Ifrit, it's still somewhat forgivable if they say it's their first time coz not all players have clue what Hard Mode means, or to what extent the hard is supposed to be. The ones that played WoW, will have some expectation to difficulty when they see the work "Hard" in front of a dungeon and go watch youtube automatically, because it's mostly like overall less time consuming to watch once, then one shot the boss, than having to wipe 20 times then know what's going on. Well that's unless if you reach the dungeons faster than youtube vids of course, then you have no choice but do progession mode and wipe and learn. If you are not THAT fast, then please go watch youtube.

Well, I watched videos only for HM Primals and I'll watch one for BCoC, always went well.
But I still type "first time here" when I'm on first time, to make everyone know that I can make a mistake once in a while.
Never had problems with AoEs, even if I am on PS3 with a slow connection in south Italy.
I hate people justifying themselves saying "I'm on PS3" because they fall in every AoE they see.
I saw dds get hit more than once by Landslide and Weight of the Land and say "I'm on PS3": the best thing to do in that case is saying "I'm on PS3 too, and I'm a healer. Use the analog stick."

The only "limitation" the PS3 has over the PC is load times, which means the only place people groan when they get a PS3 player (or at least this is the only justifiable place) is for Prae speed runs. You take the speed out of the run when you run with a PS3 player, the only way I could ever remotely justify bringing one in there is if they have a relic+1 and almost full DL, to have their faster DPS make up for the fact that we will have to wait a minute after each video for you (given that there are like 20 videos in that place, this is not an inconsiderable amount of time).

Anyway, I still stand by, this game is not hard, and practically teaches you how to play as you go through locations (the only exceptions to this might be BCoB, heard some say things are not completely obvious in that place, and I haven't done it yet). Even Titan as a DD is painfully obvious what you should do, and if you miss something the first time you see it, it will not kill you.

Landslide? phase 1 will not kill you.
Plumes? phase 2 will not kill you (unless you have such a low amount a health that you prob shouldn't be in there in the first place)
Bombs? also, one bomb does not kill at this point, you get two solid rounds of this at least to learn how they work
So by the time you hit P5 you have seen EVERYTHING there is to see, and they just throw it all at you really fast, back to back.

If you die in Titan, it is totally your fault for being bad, now strategy wise for handling some of the finer points there is valid reason to as a group decide how you want to handle things (because this makes the fight easier), but the actual mechanics of the fight boil down to stand in red and you are dead. I don't need a video to tell me not to stand in the fire.

I actually find myself messing up mechanics on subsequent attempts more than the first go around. Chalk that up to getting tired and complacent I suppose.

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Originally Posted by ChickensEvil

You take the speed out of the run when you run with a PS3 player

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This kind of player is why I'm lv50 from 2-3 weeks ago and I still have only 2 DL pieces and 4 AK just because I'm on PS3.
Gimme a break, PS3 player doesn't mean no speedrun. I'm on PS3 and I easily do speedrun Prae with PS3 tank and/or dps within 23-24 minutes.
You lose the speedrun if you don't wait the PS3 players to skip cutscenes, because you'll fight bosses without someone and deal a lot less damage, ending on the 30-35 minutes, while if you wait you'll lose 3-4 seconds per cutscene, which means less than half a minute on the whole timer.
But "hey, I'm a PC player and I'm fast, get lost, you cursed PS3 player, I want only PC!"
This really sucks, I see people getting to lv50 and then getting full DL + relic+1, all while I'm standing still in Mor Dhona, with the "LFG/LFM" always in the chat.

Another post articulating self-entitlement.

Read the OP as: I want everyone to conform to my wants so that I get what I want faster.

GTFO lol

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Originally Posted by Evilized6666

So you people don't want "hand holding guides", but me having to explain the same fight for the 25th time in a row is acceptable? Sorry it's not my job to teach these things over and over.

Also not sure why you people want to keep comparing this to wow. Early wow dungeons/raids were extremely easy and simple. Even when I left at the start of panda land dungeons and raids were face roll easy minus their hard mode counter parts.

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And this is where I label you selfish douche bag and quit this thread. Honestly not everyone has a high end PC to Google shit on while playing the game, and others like myself learn best from doing whatever it is we're running, I play on a PS3 with a freaking controller and I always take the time to stop and explain to a newbie how to do something if they ask. It's called common courtesy, take your head out of your ass and try it, or better yet go back to WoW, they miss you and your kind there.

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Originally Posted by Kanash

Wiping is part of the learning experience. It always have been, in all games, before guides were even made.

But showing up to dungeons well undergeared, is just bad tough. I've seen people in Titan HM, wearing lv 19 white rings.... Thats just not good enough!

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That is what fate grinding and buying levels gets you. Anyone who plays through the main story and a small fraction of side quests whether rushed or achingly slow will show up to post story end game content with ilvl gear under 40 or so, it's impossible unless you are stupid and just sell all the quest rewards instead of equipping the better gear you get awarded. And if that is the case, the short bus is coming around het corner shortly, better grab your helmet.

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Originally Posted by Velev

No need for advice from anyone these days. Google it and 90% of the time you'll find an answer.
As for boss fights / Dungeons, again, with todays' internet, get on you tube and check out any and every fight before hand. That way you come prepared. Sure it's nice to experience things first hand but it's nice to know what you're up against before you waltz in blindly.

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Bullshit, part of laying any and every kind of video game, or enjoying any media for that matter is not looking it up on the Internet to spoil it for yourself before you enjoy it first-hand. Anyone who says otherwise is either delusional, a prick, or just retarded. Wait, weren't you one of those guys who bought that Harry potter book pre-release, skimmed it and then drove by the waiting crowd at midnight screaming spoilers? Same fucking thing -.-

Aaaaaand this is why I got an FC (love you guys) with enough people to do these runs outside of a Duty Finder, and why I'm happy we use Mumble. The game plays so much better when you have a crew you can depend on (and when you don't have to deal with any added stress/pressure). Honestly, it looks like the ones who quit at the site of an "I'm new" are in the minority, so maybe you guys should combine forces and get off the DF? Especially now that more players are reaching endgame and need these dungeons for the story; I personally don't care about tanking for new players (I was a new player once, and many of my fc members are getting their first 50).

I'll admit, as I tank I look up the fight (lack of awareness bothers the hell out of me), but I could still mess up once in the beginning because I haven't played it. My fc understands that, and IF we wipe (so far my mistakes haven't caused any endgame issues) they give me a tip or two and we move on (and usually pwn). It's so much faster than queuing up in DF, finally getting in, admitting your new, and wasting more time finding replacements (and not nearly as much fun).