High-level crafters beware: You get suspended if you sell to players who bought gil

Quote from Reddit: Its highly unlikely they ban people for selling on the market even if the buyer has bought gold since market sales are more or less anonymous while player to player trading is more personal since you had to have contacted the buyer (or seller) (Or know them beforehand as in a network of gil sellers) in order to do the transaction.
They could have simply flagged you since personally traded with someone that was flagged for buying gil.
Sort of like guilt by association. They froze your account to make sure your not doing anything wrong and stop you from profiting from your account if you are.
It sucks but if you didn't do anything wrong I'm sure everything will be fine.

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Originally Posted by rabbitzero

Okay, i'm calling BS on this right now. It's deflecting, trying to make Square look like the one doing wrong. Most of the people in the thread gloss over this part, and bold the part about RMT.

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The people who were banned all had 10 million gil or more, but all the exploiters with a pittance for gil are still running around. What happened is that SE blanket-banned anyone on non-Legacy servers with 10 million gil in hopes of nabbing some warehouses. SE support has reportedly said that this is all RMT-related and that the bans are 72 hours.

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Originally Posted by neiris

you're saying until the RMTers are banned, it's perfectly fine for the RMT money to be transferred from the buyer to these crafters, and the crafters (who should know this is going on to some extent) shouldn't be punished at all and it's ok to keep these high prices as long as RMT money is coming in?

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Maybe you could help us all out by identifying for each item, the exact amount which is a reasonable price at which to post it, but anyone asking even one gil more is clearly pandering to the RMT guys? And then Square can confirm that you picked the exact right values, and that that's exactly how it works, and anyone selling at even one gil under that threshold will always be fine, and one gil over is clearly supporting RMT.

... Unless, of course, people are sort of guessing at what prices are reasonable, or not reasonable, and there's no simple answer. In which case, your attitude is pretty hostile to players who are just using the market normally.

This is what happens when too many people scream for an immediate RMT fix. They did a hotfix yesterday that apparently had a new way to combat RMT built in, and it had surprising consequences. The really sad part of this is that people won't learn.... they'll just keep screaming :(

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Originally Posted by rabbitzero

Okay, i'm calling BS on this right now. It's deflecting, trying to make Square look like the one doing wrong.

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And Square's reps appear to confirm that they did temp-bans on anyone who had a whole lot of money, without regard to how they got it. So, yeah. Square's the one doing wrong there. It is not an exploit in any way to level crafts and make rare stuff and sell it for fair market prices.

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Originally Posted by fixitman

This is what happens when too many people scream for an immediate RMT fix. They did a hotfix yesterday that apparently had a new way to combat RMT built in, and it had surprising consequences. The really sad part of this is that people won't learn.... they'll just keep screaming :(

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Excellent point!

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Originally Posted by fixitman

This is what happens when too many people scream for an immediate RMT fix. They did a hotfix yesterday that apparently had a new way to combat RMT built in, and it had surprising consequences. The really sad part of this is that people won't learn.... they'll just keep screaming :(

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yeah I'll continue to scream for immediate and long term RMT fixes... sue me

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Originally Posted by Sotek

snip.

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It's condoning the act. As I have stated before. That is all.

Definition:
con·done
kənˈdōn/
verb
gerund or present participle: condoning
1.
accept and allow (behavior that is considered morally wrong or offensive) to continue

That makes one guilty depending on the culture/legal system/rules/etc. How does SE deal with condoning what they define as illegal activities in this game? I do not know. I'm fairly certain this entire thing is just a big accident on their end. This is all just food for thought, so you understand. I stick to my opinion on this matter, as I feel those who accept the wrongdoings of others are just as guilty as the wrongdoers.

The solution is getting rid of RMTers, as you stated before, obviously. :P That will most likely never happen completely though~

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Originally Posted by seebs

... Unless, of course, people are sort of guessing at what prices are reasonable, or not reasonable, and there's no simple answer. In which case, your attitude is pretty hostile to players who are just using the market normally.

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Oh the irony. Your attitude is pretty hostile yourself, no? I'm just putting out another point of view on this situation. I haven't accused anyone of anything, just having an intellectual conversation. Sigh. Some people.

Unless a statement is revealed, all this thread is doing is encouraging wild speculation.
Let time pass, let them finish their investigation and then give the final reason, if that reason is indeed a false statement. At that point AND ONLY THAT POINT
Should doing something like sparking useless threads, and writing angry letters about how you'll stop giving them money for two months should be instigated

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Originally Posted by ashikenshin

yeah I'll continue to scream for immediate and long term RMT fixes... sue me

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Will you also scream for them to 'fix their mistake' when whatever they do to address your problem mistakenly hits you??

I bet those people selling Titan HM runs feel bad. That's if they got banned for receiving illegitimate gil.

From Cactuar server here, i have 10.5 millions and got suspended. Was playing fine this morning and now can't do anything, I even have a authenticator so I highly doubt I got hacked.

To people saying "Having over 10m is suspucious", I was the first 46+ miner on my server for several days, sole supplier to the whole server, making 1m a day so stop throwing false accusation...

I really hope they clean this mess soon.

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Originally Posted by neiris

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Here is the thing; None of us condone Gil Buying.

We leveled our crafts. We want to use them to make money for whatever reason (Housing, probably). That is it. Prices are ridiculous? Well, I guess that depends on the server, but 2m for something that costs just under 1m to make? Hardly ridiculous at all.

Nobody is going "I'm selling it at this price SO PEOPLE WILL HAVE TO BUY GIL FOR IT!". No, they're just selling at the price they see as reasonable. RMT are a fact of MMOs, you cannot honestly expect people to stop profiting off crafting just because RMT are a thing. This has not been a problem in any other MMO. This is not sellers condoning Gil Buying. This is the exact same economics which drives pretty much every other MMO out there.

Hey guys lets ban people who legitimately made all their millions of gil over the last month, will go real well. I really do hope Square has a system in place where they can tell "hey this guy got several million gil all at once" and they can tell it apart from "hey this guy has several million gil but it's made through several hundred/thousand transactions over the last month", because if they don't that the most asinine thing ever that there seems to be an "unknown" gil cap in place where if you're over a set amount you get taken out for the weekend.

Do something about the RMT spammers first square then worry about who may or may not have bought gil, you aren't doing anyone any favors killing off actual playing players over killing off the bots who sit in shout all day long spamming their service.

At Nimrod, on my server I see Ilvl70 gears being sold for 2mill, if you think about it logically, whoever made the gear probably spent at most 400k on materials such to HQ (probably much less because on reddit you can learn how to guarantee a HQ item 100% rate) and are selling their items at like 300% and the only reason they are doing this...is because they know dummies out there have bought gold from gold sellers and will have 2mill to drop on their 500k items. It should be pretty obvious that very few people are going to have over a mill through normal means so pricing your stuff in a way that screams "only buy my stuff if you bought gold from a gold seller" should be an excuse to get yourself banned.

At the very least said gear seller should receive a message to the extent of, stop targeting gold buyers and target your sales to real players.

Here's the rub. Yes, everyone who made their gil fairly has cause to be angry but the fact they were affected is testament to just how far RMT are going to look legitimate. It's getting harder for Square to tell the RMT from the honestly successful, so they have little choice than to get out a shotgun and bandage up the ones that bleed, to use a zombie horror example. All the ones you see shouting in the city centers? Those are akin to those kids on the sides of roads twirling signs. They aren't the business, they're just pointing you in the direction of. I get that people are unhappy with this arrangement, but if you know of a better way I'm sure Square would love to see it. Nothing hits the bottom line like an angry customer and a shotgun is just going to make for alot of angry customers.

Ouch 72 Hr. blanket ban for people effected according to the reddit.. goodbye weekend for the effected =/.

Too bad they didn't ban all the botter crafters. I love seeing people that got to 50 crafting within a couple days screaming about how they were "just selling their wares"... uhh huh.

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Originally Posted by neiris

How does SE weed out those players efficiently? That's very very tough if not impossible unfortunately.

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You know, I bet if they banned every character they'd catch 100% of gil farmers! Oh, wait, was not banning legitimate players one of the goals we wanted to achieve? WHOOPS.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

SE sometimes flags normal players as RMT if they make a lot of gil. Obviously they shouldn't but they do make mistakes a lot when it comes to people with a lot of gil.

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I had it happen twice in FFXI. Thankfully it was on two separate accounts so I avoided any long term bans but it was utterly ridiculous. They would not even explain to me in full why I was banned. I knew there was no legitimate reason for it but multiple reps would just quote to me the vague BS I was sent in an email. Honestly, I don't know what SE is thinking but if you're banning someone you should tell them the EXACT reason. In fact, I feel like it's a customers right to know why. Seriously SE... you're just perpetuating your reputation for having ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE customer "service".

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Originally Posted by neiris

1 mil to make, so 2 mil charge? That's 100% profit, and that's a ton of money as well. Justification?

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You mean like real life? Have you ever left your house?

I'll just leave this here.
http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics...008/4008_7.jpg

This thread benefits me in that I was going to purchase long FF14 subscription, but now I will not. I will keep it monthly, because I cannot be sure what they will ban for next.

Disregarding the people who bought/sold gil for a moment, did these sweeping bans also affect the botting Disciples of Land?

It's probably obvious by reading this thread that most posters did not major in economics nor law. They did not even minor in these fields, for that matter.

I find that thought rather comforting for the world —the real one, I mean— that these people don't run our banks nor our courts; yet the very thought of them being allowed to vote is unambiguously disturbing at the same time, considering we're mostly operating under the law of the majority —yes, in the real world, again.

I thought the internet would bring education to the masses. Apparently, I was wrong. Or it takes a hell of a longer time than I thought.

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Originally Posted by Raim

Disregarding the people who bought/sold gil for a moment, did these sweeping bans also affect the botting Disciples of Land?

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The spamming chat bots and the teleporting miners still around I believe saw a few in game before logging.

It appears to only be affecting players with > xxxx gil. Speculation right now is > 8-10 mil is the "investigation" point.

It does not seem very wise to do this over a weekend, that kind of poorly planned dickery is what causes you to lose subscriptions.

It's always the guilty that cry the loudest about their "innocence".

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Originally Posted by devchan

I'll just leave this here.
http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics...008/4008_7.jpg

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If only this was what happened. Except in this scenario, take away the ban's from any of the hunter/carrier/buyer's/mule's with less than 10 million gil, and add in every non-legacy player with over XXX amount of gil (currently thought to be 8mil+)

Did any of you 50 crafters research your buyers or did you just greedily grab up all the money? I feel for some of you, but the greedy crafter who sold to this guy kinda had it coming.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/2790193/

Seriously, look at him. Lvl 50, 15 sub, 0 crafts or gatherers even touched, yet affords a full set of pentamelded ilvl 70 hq gear? I'm not saying that everyone deserved this, but if you sold a ferrari to some hobo off the street who payed in bags of cash, you'd be investigated, too.

Be careful who you sell to, do your research if something seems fishy, and lower your damn prices. I supplied all mats and got quoted at 250k a piece just for the craft. This is promoting gil buying worse than selling Titan runs. I was able to get a friend of a friend craft my 2 pieces for 50k. Non crafters will never be able to afford your over the top prices for this gear.

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Originally Posted by Streetwolf

It's always the guilty that cry the loudest about their "innocence".

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And every day one guy stands up and needs to "flame" w/o knowing or understanding a situation. GJ on that AV and glad you found your way in this thread.

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Originally Posted by sdpenaloza

The spamming chat bots and the teleporting miners still around I believe saw a few in game before logging.

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Teleporting miners probably don't have money, they probably just have mats. The gil sellers are also offering shards for payment directly so there is no gil transaction there at all.

The funny thing is it is probably very easy for them to plot mining rates (or at least come up with a method) because there is a significant nerf to that rate when traveling to nodes manually.

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Originally Posted by Shigaru

Did any of you 50 crafters research your buyers or did you just greedily grab up all the money? I feel for some of you, but the greedy crafter who sold to this guy kinda had it coming.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/2790193/

Seriously, look at him. Lvl 50, 15 sub, 0 crafts or gatherers even touched, yet affords a full set of pentamelded ilvl 70 hq gear? I'm not saying that everyone deserved this, but if you sold a ferrari to some hobo off the street who payed in bags of cash, you'd be investigated, too.

Be careful who you sell to, do your research if something seems fishy, and lower your damn prices. I supplied all mats and got quoted at 250k a piece just for the craft. This is promoting gil buying worse than selling Titan runs. I was able to get a friend of a friend craft my 2 pieces for 50k. Non crafters will never be able to afford your over the top prices for this gear.

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I wasn't aware it rested on the seller's part to do a background-check of everyone they sold something to, in order to avoid a ban. Thank you for enlightening us. It would be prudent to also research their friends and FC mates, just in case someone gave them the money, in a typically evil cooperation stance —we all know those who are generous are evil, and cooperation is bad and punishable.

I'll now use that in-game browser to... oh wait...

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Originally Posted by Alcyon_Densetsu

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This is our game. It is what we make it. If you can't take 5 minutes to look up someone on lodestone then yes, you are possibly supporting Gil Buying. If someone comes up to you and says 'I want 6 pieces of HQ Vanya, melded with 5 materia' and he is in nothing but AF, you seriously wouldn't see a red flag? This is millions of gil worth of a sale, and you'd just take it without looking? Yes he'd probably just go somewhere else to get it, but let that guy get suspended. These bans won't be permanent, but its not unreasonable to see people accepting paydays like this to be investigated.

I do feel bad for the people who made one small sale at a time to legitimate buyers and got banned in this blanket, but something had to be done about all this gil being shoved in from RMT. Was this the right choice? idk...

"Did any of you 50 crafters research your buyers or did you just greedily grab up all the money? I feel for some of you, but the greedy crafter who sold to this guy kinda had it coming.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/2790193/

Seriously, look at him. Lvl 50, 15 sub, 0 crafts or gatherers even touched, yet affords a full set of pentamelded ilvl 70 hq gear? I'm not saying that everyone deserved this, but if you sold a ferrari to some hobo off the street who payed in bags of cash, you'd be investigated, too.

Be careful who you sell to, do your research if something seems fishy, and lower your damn prices. I supplied all mats and got quoted at 250k a piece just for the craft. This is promoting gil buying worse than selling Titan runs. I was able to get a friend of a friend craft my 2 pieces for 50k. Non crafters will never be able to afford your over the top prices for this gear."


Yeah cause if you have no friends no one else do right?

My gear is reasonable for a soley battle oriented person with small connections. I have 2 pieces of HQ vanya. Farmed every single mat for them. The idea of melding a piece of 35k gil materia at a 19% success rate is absolutely terrifying to me. I'm a legitimate player. The guy I linked didnt farm the mats obviously. He finished his first AK less than a week ago when he already had the gear. You seriously think this guy got hooked up because of a couple of friends? Thats 9 mats at 125 philo tomes per piece of gear, thats including nothing out. Keep defending this, thats totally what this game needs.

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Originally Posted by Shigaru

My gear is reasonable for a soley battle oriented person with small connections. I have 2 pieces of HQ vanya. Farmed every single mat for them. The idea of melding a piece of 35k gil materia at a 19% success rate is absolutely terrifying to me. I'm a legitimate player. The guy I linked didnt farm the mats obviously. He finished his first AK less than a week ago when he already had the gear. You seriously think this guy got hooked up because of a couple of friends? Thats 9 mats at 125 philo tomes per piece of gear, thats including nothing out. Keep defending this, thats totally what this game needs.

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simplest explanation is: he bought gil.

Suspicious behavior or not, I don't think its the responsibility of a crafter in an MMO to check every person they trade with. It hasn't been for almost any previous MMO. What some of you are trying to do is a culling of players in order to create what you believe to be a perfect community free of any misconduct. You don't see to realize just how many people you are alienating when you make posts on here saying "Whatever, leave. We don't care." This is a textbook case of "First they came for X, but I wasn't an X so I didn't speak up." How many people will be left before you realize what you're doing is ridiculous? I'd go so far as to say that people who encourage others to leave the game, and people who point fingers at those protesting their innocence are just as bad as gil sellers.

serves crafters right for selling even normal relic weapons for 300k gil when normal person gets 250k at 50