Endgame Progression, Elitism and You

I went through garuda with fresh 50`s only geared person was me and my friend, its all about knowing the strats and people who are willing to listen really

I love how there are actually people who think AF means they are geared lol XD. I just left a group with a 50 Paladin in AF with grey sword and trinkets (necklace, rings etc) and the Bard thought he was geared! OMGROFL... So many sad gamers out there.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

I love how there are actually people who think AF means they are geared lol XD. I just left a group with a 50 Paladin in AF with grey sword and trinkets (necklace, rings etc) and the Bard thought he was geared! OMGROFL... So many sad gamers out there.

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she said, unaware of the irony.

Personally I disagree with the person who started this thread. Garuda HM is pretty easy if you have people who know what they're doing. I've beaten her a couple times with 1 piece of DL gear and somewhat AF gear. I'm a healer. I'm healing with Crits of 2.6k. That aside I do agree Titan HM you have to be very well geared to stand up to this guy. So I have a lot of runs with AK to do. But he is the last thing I need to do for my Relic Weapon so when I do beat him I'm getting that bad ass Relic Weapon. Plus I might do a yes and victory sip of my water lol

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Originally Posted by Phogg

In XI I faced so many battles getting people just to TRY something just for shiggles like all pet sky god kills at 75, using BSTs in Divine might at 75, only to get responses like "It can't be done." But what about this? "It can't be done."

Then we go do it. Crazy how that works out when you have some balls.

Really the worst kind of elitism if you ask me, can't even be bothered to try.

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In XI, there were dozens of ways to cleverly defeat NMs--obstacles, bind/sleep/stun, movement speed, pets, DoTs, etc.--rather than raw stat advantages. But for these, you had between 60 minutes and forever to bring these NMs down.

XIV has a very rigid approach to its endgame content. With Garuda, for example, it's an auto-wipe if you can't defeat Suparna and Chirada. Likewise with Titan, if you don't break his heart. This continues on into BC. You can't really outwit these timed, instant death phases like you could kite Ullikummi or Jailers.

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Originally Posted by Hachiko

FTFY

I'll agree with that. I'd still be willing to bet the rest of your FC group was also pulling more than their weight as well.

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SHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... they might hear you

Ran Garuda in full AF with 2 darklight accessories and a ilvl 49HQ polearm. Did higher dps than the two brd's we had only lost out to the full darklight mnk. Won on the second attempt with a terrible off tank who pretty much made sure everyone got cleaved by the adds. End up getting Garuda's beak for a 1/1 on wins. Mostly DF party with only one whm and the main tank pld being from my LS. Easy to get a win if you pay attention and dont slack off.

Yeah, I dunno what you're talking about, OP. AK is cake in AF as long as you know the mechanics. Garuda HM is all about the party doing each of their jobs. As long as that happens, it's very simple.

You do not need to be in full iLvl 55 gear before doing AK, and you do not need to be in full DL before doing Garuda HM. Those two places are all about getting good players — not good gear.

Op no offence but like your gear is trash. Maybe you should work on it before calling other people out. Just saying.

I agree with some point's and also understand you don't NEED DL for Ifrit or Garuda but it damn well helps a lot to have it.
And for Titan people with normal AF should not even queue because they waste everyone's time. It is not only about the dps or healing output, it is the extra VIT which makes a huge difference. A healer with 2.5k health or 3.2k is a huge difference and can and will save your life when something goes wrong.
Or for DD's 3.2k to 3.7k (At least for BRD's). With normal AF and white accessories you're just a burden to your team (at Titan).

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Originally Posted by Mikser

Please don't update your "reserved" posts. I'm pretty sure no one else wants to hear more from you.

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Yeah, took all of two sentences before that became completely obvious.

The running theme of this thread seems to be 'if you know what you're doing, it'll be ok.' Really? Hmmm... News to me. I tend to picture the conditions for success in content as kind of inversely related. That is to say a high level of knowledge can pair with a low level of gear to equate to success and the same can be said of a high level of gear and a low level of knowledge, mostly because better gear increases the margin for error.

The trouble, I think, lies with the subjective answers to questions of minimum requirements for content. There is an objective measure to found there and the real fun, in my opinion, is finding it. The benefits of finding that objective cut off in terms of gear requirements have other applications too like potentially allowing you to run content in shitty gear for the purposes of spirit binding it, never mind the core benefit which is to impart some clear information and realistic expectations onto the community. Distorted expectations cause more conflict than they're worth. It's hard to see eye-to-eye when you're both living separate 'truths'.

As an aside, if you say "You can't do this without X" and someone says "actually, I've done it and continue to do it with less." You were mistaken. Revise your assumptions. Be happy in the knowledge that you've learned something new. Move on.

Honestly people, the guy's trying to give advice on how to save yourself a completely stressful situation of "OMG HOW DO I GET GEAR" and fucking lays it out for you.... AND YOU ALL CALL HIM AN ELITEST DOUCHE?!

I for one liked this post, it gives me and my friends a very good idea of where to start once we hit 50. He said no to a Garuda Hard Mode, he didn't say "up yours buddy I'm not even gonna help you get the basic end-game gear hahahahha n00bz l0l xD". Please learn to read the situation.

Faith in community ever dwindling.

Edit: To those who think he is being an elitest and your gear doesn't matter for these things; by all means gather up a group of "non-geared" people in AF gear or whatever the substandard for these things are and do it. Let us know how it goes. From what I've heard, it isn't pretty.

^^^^^^^^^

He is a Douche, don't try defending him. He wouldn't even bother helping someone in his LS try to tackle the content and you come on here white knighting him PLS..........

I'm sure with that attitude your a real productive member of your FC or LS too..... I just don't see the harm in trying to help someone out whether there under geared or not is it really that much of an inconvenience to you. Is your time really that precious.......

What's funny though is I think the OP actually thought he was gonna get a completely different response and people would be praising this topic and instead it went the opposite way and now we have a couple butthurt people in the thread.........

Not sure where all this hate for the OP comes from. He tried to be informative, some of his information might have been a bit off, and I think by reading the thread a fuller picture of what the objective measure for success is might have started to come together for someone who didn't know the answer before. Not the end of the world and it certainly doesn't make him an elitist. Also, taking his FC member's reaction as fact for the sake of argument, I'd kick them out of the FC probably. Instead of beginning a dialogue hopefully leading to a realistic answer and maybe some self-improvement on the part of the OP and the FC member who was supposedly under-geared, the immediate knee jerk reaction was hostile and defensive. Don't need people like that in an FC. The OP was doing what he thought was helpful, no need to jump down his throat about it.

Help and carry don't mean the same thing. 'Helping' people who won't help themselves isn't helping. He never said "I'll never run it with you, fuck you." I'd wager he'd maybe even happily run WT or AK with this person to help them gear up (correct me if I'm wrong OP) in order to help them with Garuda HM later, had they not immediately jumped down his throat.

Good read, would read again. To all the people who have been bashing him. Shame...shame on you. You either know he has a point but you disagree on some of the details or you just don't want to hear the truth. Suck it up cupcake, go big or go home.

Before you DF for Garuda, Titan, or whatever ask yourself the following question:

"If everyone in the party had to use exactly the same equipment as I am currently wearing, would we win?"

If the answer is no please don't queue.

Many people put hours and hours of effort in to their gear before doing harder content, when these people get partnered with others who have put zero effort in it's nothing short of offensive. DFing AK in item level 40 gear is selfish.

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Originally Posted by Jahaudant

Before you DF for Garuda, Titan, or whatever ask yourself the following question:

"If everyone in the party had to use exactly the same equipment as I am currently wearing, would we win?"

If the answer is no please don't queue.

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I'd add to this the following. If you don't know the answer to that question, maybe it's incumbent upon you to do a little research and find out. Personal responsibility.

They need to add the gear check now. Right now. Like yesterday now. The amount of people running instances(garuda/titan/AK) in full AF with lv47 weapons and lv 30 accessories is ridiculous. They're trolling the player base actually trying to progress. I'm done being nice. I get into titan now and make sure people are ifrit+ lv 60(for the most part)+ gear. If you're wearing a lv 47 weapon, AF and crap rings I'm going to call you out in front of the whole party and afk. Yea, I'll waste your time because you just wasted everyone else's time in this que and I'm sick of getting to heart phase and wiping when we're already carrying a tank, and now a dps too. The healers who show up with 2900 HP as well are driving me nuts. I just did a garuda and the fourth time she teleports(where she summons plumes but no shriek) she actually used shriek. Four times. Four. I've never seen that happen before ever. I look at the drg who is in full AF, lv 47 lance, lv 27-30 accessories. Stop. Just stop queing. You're ruining the game for everyone else.

Honestly I'm so over DF right now I can't even take it. I need server transfers to open up asap so I can move to a NA server and we can expand our ls to numbers where we don't need DF anymore. As it stands now we have 4-6 people for every run but we still rely on DF for those last two which messes up the drops for say, if I went pld and need bow my LS would allow me to lot it and they would pass, instead of simply getting beat out by a greed against everyone in a DF.

Scrubs, existing in a state of mediocrity or uselessness and demanding others abide their nonsense. I believe the world calls that the very definition of entitlement. FFXIV ARR needs some tools to vote kick players, gear check dungeons, and allow players a skill-cap option for dungeons. Calling an individual an elitist for expecting some form of skill and gear requirement is just an oxymoron.

Well to be honest so far you only really need to have good gear for titan.

I have done ak ifrit and garuda with just my class gear i got on 45 and 1 piece on 50 and crafted jewelry and company weapon
over the last couple of days i did get some better gear but that was just 3 drops from ak en for the titan attempt our fc goldsmith gave me some better jewelry.
ak you can pretty much do when u get to 50 and you got the gear from your quests
Now it wont be a speed run but it is not that hard
Garuda is where things get interesting but as a other poster already stated as long as the group can down the adds on time it really is not a big deal
Now Titan is a whole different ball park where u do need good gear

But as with any game more important are the people you are playing with and your capabilities to use your class.
Then the gear you are wearing (swimsuits excluded)

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Originally Posted by XyleHarkyn

The one thing for us core players

I'm off to re-queue for HM Gardua for the millionth time.

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Core players dont queue. Core players have other FC core players to run with.

I love this post as someone who is new to MMOs and also not in level 50 yet. I would much rather do the work and get educated ahead of time, than be yelled at the entire time I'm trying to do the dungeon because I didn't know what I was doing. I, for one, will do the work I need to do before the dungeons so I don't feel like an idiot. This should be advice for EVERY instanced fight, not just the endgame content. (Tried running Qarn again to clean up a hunting log... That was fun...)

One more thought: When playing a regular Final Fantasy game, isn't it more fun to power level, explore content, and find hidden things before you get to bosses? If you just run straight to the end game without doing anything it's super annoying. Tried it the first time I played FF8, and hated the game. Second time I played, I did the work to get Squalls best weapon on disc 1, which gave me time to really learn the mechanics of the game, and it completely changed the experience. Just saying.

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Originally Posted by Methuselah

You were wrong.....it's as simple as that.

A FC member came on and asked if anyone wanted to try the content with him.....that doesn't mean beating the content.

I feel sorry for you XyleHarkyn if you're not interested in doing content with FC members simply for the sake of doing content regardless if you can beat it or not. The entire point of playing an mmo is to be part of an online community that does things together....if that's not what your doing then why play MMO's at all?

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No, you sir are the one who is very wrong.

NO ONE LIKES TO LOSE!

I don't know why you mouth breathers have such a hard time wrapping your heads around this. You're probably that one kid who sat out in gym class because you fail at anything even remotely competitive. If you and your FC feel like getting smashed in content you're clearly not ready for then fine but don't queue in duty finder until you meet the requirements for completion.

I'll hit 50 this weekend and was wondering what comes next, so good post OP, thank you.

Good lord, this thread has certainly brought out the worst of some people.

XyleHarkyn, good post. I applaud your effort to educate on the subject of endgame gear progression in this game and the issues that are causing confusion for new lvl 50 players.

Please don't be discouraged by the folks in this thread who posted a knee-jerk reaction without reading past the first 2 sentences, we need more players who are willing to share information. It's bad enough that we can't help those who refuse to listen and instead spew hate, the last thing we need is to leave people behind because we stopped talking altogether.

Tc gave an explanation for his position in plus of giving good, readily available information that can help many people.

On the other hand, the self entitled scrubbies who believes that everyone should compensate for their incompetence and laziness, because they think they're legends, are just whining and saying the equivalent of "no u".

I'm still low level but I thank you tc for the information. Ignore the bads who are whining. They'll more than likely quit and fail at everything they do both in game and RL.

It's like children throwing temper tantrums at "you must be this tall to ride" signs.

Good post OP despite the negativity.

While I have had good pugs the majority of them are undergeared for anything. Example for the "you don't need x gear for y instance" people, pugged AK for the first time in weeks last weekend. Got matched with a decent healer but 2 under geared dps. One with a GC wep and the other with a lvl 44 pink wep neither had any darklight. Needless to say we never made it past wall. Best we did was survive until he pushed us back so far we were in the poison. So while i agree that a good player can do some things without being completely geared it's not recommended.

Once you get to Titan HM that pretty much changes. Go in with under 3100hp and you're almost assured to get killed by stomps in p3. That's if you manage to avoid everything before that and get the heart down.

It's not about being elitist or a jerk. It's about not expecting to be carried to everything. Do the work like the rest of us had to do

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Originally Posted by DivineOracle

I love how there are still morons who think you need darklight gear for most of endgame, when my best HM garuda run was 2 tries and every single dps and me ( healer) was all in full AF including the tank, and we went through the fight, flawlessly.

So in other words as rydin stated it just seems to be people like OP are just sub-par skilled players that cannot function without the best gear possible, so they try to brainwash everyone else into thinking you need this and this gear for content that you don't need it for. AF is perfectly fine for most endgame content outside of Coil. accept it or not, i could careless, but don't feed this egotistical BS to people who actually have a will of their own.

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You sound like a wonderful person. I soooooo want to play with you

/sarcasm

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Originally Posted by Ariyn

It's about not expecting to be carried to everything. Do the work like the rest of us had to do

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You mean farm AK / wanderer using exploits skipping all mobs doing a 20 minutes run? :rolleyes:

The salt is strong in this thread.

Good read! I would read again, I'm working on my darklight set doing CM runs. It's like super easy to get and the difference in my heals is very noticeable. I think I started it all wrong, I worked getting all the darklight accessories first and then work on my armor when it should have been the other way around. Oh well. I'll get my gloves tonight.

Guys if you want to participate in harder content and get cool stuff, grind a bit of CM, it's super easy and you get your starter ilvl 70 gear haha

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Originally Posted by Hachiko

You have to be joking. You're comparing a fresh 50 to your legacy character running Garuda for the "first time" when you already have the ilvl 70 weapon she drops? You think that makes you better than a "mediocre player"? I'm guessing you were running with your FC also? Did they also handicap themselves? Maybe run AF with a relic weapon? Maybe a scholar in full darklight but only a lieutenants weapon?

You're even worse than him, considering you're lording your skill over him when you were heavily leaning on your gear and just didn't realize it. Let's see you queue up in the Duty Finder with AF and a Flame Seargent's Bow and see how well you fare then.

I love how you're acting pro about killing Garuda Hardmode "over 2 weeks ago" on a legacy character also. Seriously. This is such a ridiculous post. I'm hoping it was a typo, for your sake.

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Like+1000

When I read 'killed Garuda first time with Garuda Bow and AF'...../facepalm.

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Originally Posted by Nationalcity

^^^^^^^^^

He is a Douche, don't try defending him. He wouldn't even bother helping someone in his LS try to tackle the content and you come on here white knighting him PLS..........

I'm sure with that attitude your a real productive member of your FC or LS too..... I just don't see the harm in trying to help someone out whether there under geared or not is it really that much of an inconvenience to you. Is your time really that precious.......

What's funny though is I think the OP actually thought he was gonna get a completely different response and people would be praising this topic and instead it went the opposite way and now we have a couple butthurt people in the thread.........

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I mean I really considered ripping you apart on so many things here, but the fact that you can neither comprehend a post and completely fit in with this sheep mentality of a forum seems to be a greater insult then any I could throw at you.

It's cute that you pretend to know my habits based off a post that A) neither directly nor indirectly states anthing about my personal attitudes and character and B) try to throw the "white knight" phrase at me. Here's a little advice for you buddy; not everyone you don't agree with is a "white knight". I mean if you're going to throw that phrase out there at least use it correctly.

I don't claim to know OP, and frankly I find it odd that you can call him a douche when you're on completely different servers and have nothing to do with each other. I bet you're a real gem to talk to for 3 minutes over the phone or something since you obviously have the ability to sum up a person in a few paragraphs.

The only butthurt people I see in this thread are people who are slandering a post they probably didn't even read.

Also I need to point out I disagree with you, if this isn't immediately obvious. Is this the part where I call you a white knight? :)

Oh, and there appears to be a problem with your period key (it's the little . if you're uneducated, just sayin') It looks like it's stuck or something because everytime you press it like 5 more appear after it o.o I can recommend some good cleaning products if you like.

So OP makes a well thought out and informative post explaining how things work at 50 progression wise and the thread fills up with people calling him an elitist and to not post anymore?

Sounds like a lot of butthurt bads who can't face the truth, that their lack of progression and inability to find a party in endgame dungeon runs due to their mediocre gear is their own fault. Take some responsibility for yourselves and stop expecting to be carried by people who put more time in than you. What do you want, a gear welfare system? Earn it yourself.

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Originally Posted by Teon

You mean farm AK / wanderer using exploits skipping all mobs doing a 20 minutes run? :rolleyes:

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You should really understand what an exploit is before using the term. If by your defination then majority of world first kills in every game would be an exploit. Instead it's just a clever use of game mechanics.

And even now, after your "exploit" fix, I still do 20 min castrum runs so your point is what exactly?

Finished Garuda HM with all AF geared people but they did have Ifirts weapons. Immediate story line finishers. 3 wipes. It was fine. Had nothing to do with gear, it's all about the player. I find it disturbing when someone says you "can't" do something. If i couldn't do it, or the possibility was below a 10% chance, then it would be a locked quest. But i like the challenge of fighting HM bosses in AF, its fun to me, nor do i take wiping to heart because its just a game. My friend and I got everyone to put on bikinis and swimsuits in Ifirts HM and we finished that just fine. It's not always about the gear, but the attitude towards others. Support--->Confidence= Dungeon/HM Win. No Support--->Bashing--->Lecturing--->Elitist=Dungeon/HM Fail/Pissy People.

Nice post OP. I think you are just trying to help, although others seem to disagree.

ahh, aka:

Endgame Progression, Filthy Basement dwelling trash and Normal people.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

Darklight is so not needed for AK.

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Lel whoever requires you to be in DL for something as trivial as AK is doing it wrong.

Thank you OP. Everything you say is what I have been telling fresh 50s who suddenly are confused as to why things like AK and Garuda HM are suddenly kicking their butts.

Also, OP never said you needed darklight for AK, and you don't. But basically if you make it through the storyline and run WP a few times you should probably have the Tomestones for "a couple of darklight" accessories anyway. For me the neck, bracelet and ring were my 3 lowest pieces of gear at around that point. The difference in my dmg output was noticeable and I can compare AK runs before and after and things go down much faster now.

Heck just running AK on my WHM the runs are fun and enjoyable when people are a little more geared up and not every boss fight is an "oh crap!" by-the-skin-of-our-teeth win.

One more thing, derping around in places we have no business being in is a fun way to play but I don't go in with that mentality if anyone in your party is really intending to quick win. I've gone on "test runs" or just wanted to see inside the instance and mess around but I don't do it when my FC wants fast runs.