The new Standard of Gaming?

The story dungeons are designed to be easier than optional ones because the story is meant to flow and be enjoyed. It also acts as a kind of tutorial for end game. These are things deliberately done by the devs to set you up mechanically and knowledgeably for the end game difficulty ramp-up. When you get to endgame you'll see it, trust me.

Since when are casuals allowed to call people casuals? Son I work hard all day and get plenty of playtime in whenever I can, as far as I'm concerned sleep is for casuals.
OP here decided he's part of the Elite but I doubt he's cleared any difficult content in ANY of the games listed. Also I want to smack people as hard as humanly possible for saying people who work full time are casuals, simply the most ridiculous statement ever uttered.

Basically, people. Don't be a casual at life, all you will have to look back on are meaningless accomplishments in games that no longer exist.

OP, I definitely know how you feel. However, those days are somewhat over for me. This MMO has the right balance that I need. Games that you're looking for are what I call a real diamond in the rough.

I recommend you try sandbox games like eve online, or mortals?. Good luck in your search, I hope you find what're looking for.

i almost lol'd when i saw maple story mentioned

People are crying about garuda and titan hard mode being too hard...

I remember people crying about level 44 garuda being too hard for a story quest...

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Originally Posted by Roaminggnome

Lol tablets are just as bad as cell phones


I do have to laugh though when those who think they played a hard core mmo and never played everquest try dying and losing a level or two then you won't think repairing your armor is so bad.

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I have to somewhat agree, no maps, corpse runs and random Level 35-50 mobs in zones for levels 15-25 to progress in. I will always remember Griffins and Sand Giants putting the fear in people and so many people giving OOC reports on locations and directions of those big mean mobs. Plane runs were raids of epic proportions and terribly time consuming just to even pull mobs away from the zone in so the raid could make it in. CT doing a death touch every what 30 seconds? Just getting to Nag that mean fire dragon was a pain too. going in waves and having clerics on Res duty this being all without VOIP software.

Some of that difficulty I am glad to see it go, but point made, in the beginning it was tough.

lol FFXIV easier then Maplestory? ROFLMAO.

Previous MMO experience will obviously make a big difference in what you consider hard in a new MMO. Developers can't develop and balance a totally new MMO for people with decades of MMO experience, that's just no how the gaming market works. So yes, if you're an experienced MMO player, you have to wait until max level to find a challenge, that's just how it is and there's nothing wrong with that. One of the goals of a new MMO is to pull in new people into the MMO genre and that won't happen if it's balanced for experienced players only.

We saw so many threads about people laughing how easy this game will be and to be honest all of these stopped quickly after launch, it seems like people that could "predict" difficulty in an MMO were just full of bull.

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5) Bosses that are just laughable and feel like a big trash monster

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meet titan hard

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I have to be at the end of a game to find any challenge?

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what kind of game that the early levels are harder then end game levels?

People seem to forget, that this game stops at lvl 99. Lvl 50 is not the final player experience.

Just wait for it man. The game just came out. This time next year, there is going to be a lot more crazy things to play with.

And there is a lot to do now.

God you guys are whiny.

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Originally Posted by Farore

@Roaming: I've yet to find an MMO that was truly challenging. Maybe the very beginning of WoW, it was a bit more thought-inducing, because tanks had to work for agro, healers had to work to keep people alive, and so on. Aside from that, I've never seen one.

@Hurtige: That's my point. They were all easy, some more than others. I was just saying this isn't the only MMO I've played. :P

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Run Qarn for the first time with ALL new players and not reading the guide ahead of time and I guarantee your party wipes at least once or gets stuck on the first boss for the whole timer...come back and talk about the game being too easy after you have actually done something please.

OP is totally gonna creamed at the Aurum Vale

hah, he said Maplestory :P

I must have queue'd for Qarn 6-7 times now at least, and I've only been in one successful run ; ; Tried the Chimera fight in Coerthas for the first time last night, 8-man, we wiped several times, and the only people who left, left because they'd run out of time (which is what happened to me). Aurum Vale? Everyone seems to think that coincounter guy is hard, we killed him on the first try, then got stomped on the final boss. Job quests? I died several times throughout those, some I thought were downright impossible until I changed up tactics. Yeah, there's still some tweaking they need to do, but this time around the game is a nice solid platform for them to build off of. All the lulz in the world from 'hardcore' players aren't going to change the fact that I love this game ;p

A simple answer: Because these days the majority of players have jobs, studies etc. So that should be over 75% of the players. So if you were the company, would you want to loose all those 75% casual players money that barely play and stay with only 25%? I doubt it.

How many other mmorpgs require dungeons to progress the story or even get a mount? Judging by the dungeons forums and the people crying ingame "DUNGEONS SHOULD NOT BE REQUIRED TO PROGRESS THE MAIN STORY!!!" At least a few people 30+ seem to be having problems.

Personally, the 32-50 dungeons here seem a lot harder than any "Heroic" wow 5mans you do at the start of any expansion. But maybe those 1min loot pinata fights are hard for some people.

Cannot WAIT until I see a thread from you complaining that HM primals are too hard.

I can't wait.

My own personal thoughts ^.^;

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Originally Posted by Farore

1) A long GCD, which makes combat easier because you have more time to think about what you're doing, and more time to react to what happens to you.

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I'm not sure this is just for 'casuals'. It could also be attempting to differentiate between an 'action' game and a slower paced game. An RPG does not 'have' to be turn based or action, so there should be room for different game play styles. (Me, I like turn based and not action, but I'm also not a casual player).

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Originally Posted by Farore

2) Pigeon-holing jobs into very specific skill-sets and roles, which takes the thought out of creating a class, thus making it easier to understand and use.

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You may be right here, the Jobs are VERY specific with no room for customization, and classes only a little more flexible. But *PERHAPS* it will change post 50, or with more classes/jobs unveiled, or perhaps with interesting weapon/armour/material combinations. Of course maybe not.. but I would say its too early to say unless we have official statement one way or the other. (Hopefully we will get more diversity).

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Originally Posted by Farore

3) A very low number of abilities, which make it easier to figure out what to do, because you have very few buttons to ever push.

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Yes, this is true, but I also think it is because there are only 50 levels, and they are so easy to get right now... in a way I picture 0-50 as the 'training' period, and perhaps 50-60 as the 'focus' period, and 60-75 as the 'dedicated/tough' period. Looking at some of the skills, I would not be surprised if there are more complex versions in the future. (We can't have ALL the cool stuff in first 50 levels!)

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Originally Posted by Farore

4) FATEs that give ridiculous amounts of experience, and developers that say this is how it should be. Simply another way to expedite the leveling process.

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Yes, this seems to be a popular pain point. Although *I* find dungeons faster (maybe I do FATEs wrong), I still find it a silly amount of XP.... I wonder what they are up to, and if there is something 'magical' that happens post 50?

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Originally Posted by Farore

5) Bosses that are just laughable and feel like a big trash monster. Making fights flashy doesn't make them hard, sorry.[/SIZE]

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Can we hold off on this, as these bosses are not really meant to be that tough. I believe we are still in the 'learn/balance' stage.

i guess im a noob, but how did you post so many characters in a single post? i get cut off at 1000

Can this trash post be deleted already?

Dude is no where near the remotely difficult stuff. How can you expect an MMO to start off hard? Not everyone is an MMO vet, as a result, vets have to deal with training wheel levels. Thats pretty much 1-40. At 40 bosses, and maybe 35 I'd say Qarn's last boss is a good noob melter, have more mechanics and more abilities that will one shot you for being stupid. I'm farming HM Ifrit right now, so I still have yet to see the famed HM Garuda or Titan. So really, unless you have beaten everything, then you can't say nothing was a challenge.

To be a stuck up, snobby, little brat and say I'm god's gift to gaming nothing is a challenge for me and neither is this is pathetic. Go home, little boy.

I remember when bosses had skill check rather than gear checks. Granted its been a decade, but I still prefer the AA grind over the repetive token grind. - An added bonus was the much more relaxed groupings when the grind was about building the strength of the toon, and not about rushing through a maximum number of dungeons for tokens.

For me, the hardest part of all newer mmo's is the gear grind, simply because Im bored doing it. Im tired of doing it. I miss being able to chat with my groups, hanging out in one spot of an open dungeon whilst gaining exp after max level, and I miss being able to play without the stress of speed runs. - MMO's to me are much harder today than Everquest 1 was, because Im constantly battleing boredom with the gear grind.

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Originally Posted by Farore

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What happened to the gaming world? Why do games get released like this? What happened to the challenge?

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I think what has happened to the gaming world is increasingly cynical players. Zelda was hard? FFIV was hard? Maybe back then it was. Why do people like you not consider that you have been gaming for "X" amount of years and played sooo many games and now "you" are seeing things as being stale. Do you think maybe it is BECAUSE you have played so many games for so long that everything has been done before, nothing is new, its so easy?

What happened to the gaming world? Players perception. What happened to challenge? Define challenge. Does this definition apply to everyone? Should it?

@OP: If you want challenging, go play the Secret World. Yoshi-P has stated several times that significant portions of this game are designed to have a low barrier of entry to those who haven't played MMORPGs before. It's not something that's going to change.

This Game Needs AN Instanced ABsolute Virture boss well like really epic awesome stuff.... that's what this game needs

I stopped reading.

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Originally Posted by Farore

I have to be at the end of a game to find any challenge? That doesn't seem right. A game should be fun and challenging the whole way up, and multiply in difficulty at the end. I don't see that here. It's easy until 50, and then it goes up a quarter step at 50.

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brand new players/people who have not played mmos cant have too much shoved on their head, The game ramps up, 30 it starts to become more difficult and there is plenty of endgame challenge. Endgame is what an mmo is about, the meat and bones of the genre, so only being truly difficult at endgame is fine. That is where players spent the majority of their time, the leveling being a learning process is just fine.

lol farore patience is a virtue man, i mean if u at least waited till lvl 35 and sunken temple of qarn dungeon or lvl 38 cutters cry the dificulty rate is much much higher, but really?!?! this thread for only lvl 34 lol.

You want to know why games are so casual-friendly these days?

- Most of these developers' long-time fans - the pool of guaranteed purchases - are older, working more, and part of their own families. If you ostracize them, they're not coming back.

- The pool of casual gamers is larger than the pool of core and hardcore gamers.

- Hardcore gamers are never satisfied. No amount of content is going to be enough.

- Hardcore gamers have a backlog that needs tending, which encourages them to burn through a game as quickly as they can and then move on without looking back.

Also, I find the "no challenge" comments really concerning. Maybe if all you're doing is grinding gates from 1-50, I can see why you'd feel that way, but some of these solo story/class battles have taken me, on average, three tries to complete.

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Originally Posted by ZakarnRosewood

I think what has happened to the gaming world is increasingly cynical players. Zelda was hard? FFIV was hard? Maybe back then it was. Why do people like you not consider that you have been gaming for "X" amount of years and played sooo many games and now "you" are seeing things as being stale. Do you think maybe it is BECAUSE you have played so many games for so long that everything has been done before, nothing is new, its so easy?

What happened to the gaming world? Players perception. What happened to challenge? Define challenge. Does this definition apply to everyone? Should it?

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They wear nostalgia rose tinted glasses.

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Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear

They wear nostalgia rose tinted glasses.

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Yeah, those glasses are so thick they're practically blind. :)

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Originally Posted by Farore

What has happened to the gaming world? I always thought that games would be made for quality, not to just make a quick buck.
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Video games are a commitment. They will eat up your time. If you don't have the time to play video games, well, then boo hoo for you. I don't think developers should center their games around people who really shouldn't be playing video games in the first place.

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I'm afraid your OP is quite a bit to large to fully quote, but i do want to respond to these two small parts.

Video games are made to be bought and played, which in turn yields profits as you no doubt realize. Quality video games are one of the best ways for a company to make a buck, but what you would consider quality is likely much different than the industry's. For better or for worse, Quality is measured primarily by sales a game that does not sell enough copies wont lead to more games of the same type being made. A game that caters to the "hardcore" is less likely to sell enough copies, it's simply a matter of there being so many more "casuals" in the market now.

As for the time commitment, yes video games require time, and how much they require is determined by the design. Your view that games should not be made for people who don't have the time is the fastest way for a development studio to go out of business. It's a stance that very few businesses agree with since it would exclude a lot of people with Jobs, which happen to be the people who can afford to purchase a game in the first place. And excluding someone from gaming because they have a family is simply not a defensible position.

Yeah, that "A game is a commitment" statement is a little ridiculous. If a game is a commitment, it's because you choose to make it as such.

Isn't there a term for that in the fighting games realm? "I play a game a certain way, and that's the only right way to play, and if you're not going to play that way, you suck."

@Huginn you make a post then you hit edit and you can then bypass the 1k charcter limit